So, B has started walking on eggshells about her use of water and electricity around my house. Taking most showers at her apartment for instance. Maybe laundry there as well. I'm feeling a bit troubled about the shift that direction. I don't really want to have her feeling so uncomfortable here at my place.
I've kicked around utilities figures and found that having B stay over is costing me maybe $20-30 per month. When you consider the way she helps to pick up and clean around the house, that seems like a fair trade. Especially if she takes just a little reasonable care to be a bit more conservative in water and electric use in particular. (Like not running massive amounts of water while working in the kitchen, or not leaving refrigerator door hanging open. ) I wouldn't mind if she pitched in a bit of $ once in a while, but it's not all that necessary when the money is close to diminimus.
As for laundry, my thought is that is still makes no sense for her to trundle laundry up and down her two flights of stairs, apt to basement, when it's all first floor here. I also realized part of my "issue" over laundry is that there's been a tendency for B to freely use the laundry supplies that I buy, but not to really appropriately replace them. I just had to buy fabric softener the other day -- and I buy in containers that are supposed to do over 150 loads!!
So, I'm thinking a "fair trade" would be if she keeps the laundry room supplied for the both of us, that would seem fair. All I really would ask beyond that is that the laundry soap be skin-friendly to me.
I was nearly at the point of bringing this stuff up and trying to talk through a bit further when she got dressed and headed out for errands and to get herself around via her apartment. Oh well. Later I guess.
On other subjects, we did seem to get closer to "being on the same page" (her words) over the last few days and evenings as we began to talk out past $$ issues regarding trips ("do you want me to pay you back?" No. Just keep arrangements in the future), and eating out (trying to do more trading off of who pays, asking in advance).
Progress I suppose.
And it's not lost on me that we've again had a fairly major blow out without a breakup.
Saturday, July 30, 2011
Saturday, July 23, 2011
rocky
B and I are running in to some rocky times. Just when my son and family (and 9 y.o. grand D ) are to visit. I think we're OK now, but we've had some very harsh and difficult conversations the last few nights.
She's kind of bushwacked me with the subjects and discussions. I think we've dealt with what we must and then, unexpectedly timed and in an unexpected place she'll bring some follow up discussion into the mix.
Last night, she pulled out of me that I've been having some serious concerns about financial balance within this relationship. We kind of resolved a lot of it, but there's still some to figure out (utilities share).
I also was chagrined to find out that the "melt down" (her term) I had over the new bathroom rugs and decorations has stayed with her all this time. Made her realize " I still don't feel emotionally safe in this relationship" and so on. Sigh. And was the predicate for not giving notice to her landlord and moving on in.
She's posed the idea a time or two that "maybe she's just not emotionally healthy enough for me" and "I hate to think, but maybe this relationship has run its course".
I'm still not quite "there", but patience is wearing. I'm not sure just how to deal with the less healthy aspects between us and if we don't, this isn't going to be long term after all.
She's kind of bushwacked me with the subjects and discussions. I think we've dealt with what we must and then, unexpectedly timed and in an unexpected place she'll bring some follow up discussion into the mix.
Last night, she pulled out of me that I've been having some serious concerns about financial balance within this relationship. We kind of resolved a lot of it, but there's still some to figure out (utilities share).
I also was chagrined to find out that the "melt down" (her term) I had over the new bathroom rugs and decorations has stayed with her all this time. Made her realize " I still don't feel emotionally safe in this relationship" and so on. Sigh. And was the predicate for not giving notice to her landlord and moving on in.
She's posed the idea a time or two that "maybe she's just not emotionally healthy enough for me" and "I hate to think, but maybe this relationship has run its course".
I'm still not quite "there", but patience is wearing. I'm not sure just how to deal with the less healthy aspects between us and if we don't, this isn't going to be long term after all.
Thursday, July 14, 2011
last week
was strange. In Chi-town at an assembly. Had B my fiancee in my room and enjoyed the town.... had A2 check in right behind us at the hotel, new boyfriend in tow (thank heavens!!) and weirdly..... ending up in a room next to ours. Fortunately there wasn't any direct FTF interaction in our hallway and our bathroom buffered between the rooms -- so no undue noises were heard.....
Interesting situation. Weird, but interesting.
Hopefully A2 is finally moving on. Although it was not lost on me that the new B.F. was kind of a clone of me. White guy, 50s, with a tummy..... LOL
Interesting situation. Weird, but interesting.
Hopefully A2 is finally moving on. Although it was not lost on me that the new B.F. was kind of a clone of me. White guy, 50s, with a tummy..... LOL
Monday, May 23, 2011
wondering if it will last
Sigh. For the umpteenth time B and I have had some disagreeableness over the computer, her insecurities (lack of trust) and so on and on....
It started when she discovered I had cleared the Firefox history and (inadvertently) set it to not save any history at all..... "what are you trying to hide" is the feeling she expressed.... "Porn? Dating sites? Interactions with other women? What???"
I find this interaction completely exasperating and trying. I do look at porn periodically, but not to any degree of addiction or inappropriateness.... I heard a comedienne say she enjoyed watching porn like she watches the Food Network. Fun to watch but not anything she wants to actually do. For me, it's simply an occasional masturbatory aid. I think that ought to be OK, but I do NOT think B would agree.... and I've become hardwired to avoid conflict and creating issues if I can....
Hence my clearing of the history and such. I don't remember just when I did this.... but I kind of remember being at wits end over another quiz and concern over something she'd come across on my history, etc, etc..... There'd been an issue with some old bookmarks like singlesnet.com as well as other stuff she encountered that fires up her insecurities. I was simply trying to stop a recurrence and avoid conflict.... But she found a concern and conflict ensued regardless.... sigh.
I thought we talked it out. I admitted to the occasional foray into playboy.com and blamed that and the previous conflicts for my clearing of the history. I was sure not going to admit looking at harder core stuff, LOL.
And I did all the usual honest reassurances.... I'm NOT involved with anyone else, pursuing involvement, communicating, etc, etc..... Frankly the only loose connection I have to my previous (potential) love life is that TC and I have remained loose email friends.... and I get postings from her, as part of a group she sends to, periodically. I don't feel a strong need to pursue that particular potential relationship; but should this one fail, I might return carefully to that one to see where it leads.
I am very frustrated at this point that despite assurance after assurance and repeated honest answers -- that I'm not entirely comfortable admitting to -- are still necessary and inadequate. I've TOLD B that I've NEVER had casual sex. Never had a one night stand. Never did the typical "middle aged bachelor/crazy" thing.... etc, etc. I tell her that because it is the truth. I did not have a normal male sexual development, and my relative comfort and skill (?) as a lover is despite that lack of normal development.
I find it a little shameful in a "macho male" way that I've ONLY had sexual encounters that were meaningful and only with the four women I've had a relationship with.
But she doesn't believe me.... Doesn't trust me and it would appear cannot and will never fully trust me. That is a problem.
Even more disturbing to my psyche is the fact that even though we seemed to talk this latest bit out..... she's gotten into some kind of doldrums. I don't know if she's depressed, or contemplating ending the relationship or just what. But I can tell she's bothered about something to the point of affect of mood.
Her behaviors of the last 36 hours have had some of my PTSD firing off thoroughly. She's acting a bit like M and I'm having to fight off reactions that are rooted in that awful and unhealthful relationship. The "lost years" as I think of them now.....
She's withdrawn, marginally communicative, acting like there's something on her mind that I'm supposed to draw out, yada yada yada.
It's enough to make me contemplate to a slight extent how I might react if she wants to end the relationship... or even to end it myself if it cannot be healthy, open and relatively honest. I'm rapidly losing my perception that B is in general well adjusted. Anymore I am not so sure.
I've wondered about "taking a break" but I know that that is impossible. There is no way, even if I stated a strong intent to stay physically and emotionally celibate, that she would ultimately believe I did so after a period of separation.
I'm certain with the dynamics that we have that either we have to press forward full on together and do our best to have a good relationship, or end it as amicably as we can, and leave it be. I believe B is incapable of allowing for a break or rest in the relationship and also retain trust....
That is impossible because the trust doesn't exist from the get-go.
I've been patient for 36 hours and we'll see where things go tomorrow.... But I will not continue to feel this way or otherwise seriously negative and unhealthy relationship-wise.
I would take a break and heal and be celibate for a time should we break this off.... But there is a limit to my patience and forebearance as regards this lack of trust and continued fear of abandonment....
While I don't think B is a borderline, she has some tendencies, and the inability to trust and the fear of abandonment (which she isn't all that in touch with) is BPD-like.
Been there; done that.
It started when she discovered I had cleared the Firefox history and (inadvertently) set it to not save any history at all..... "what are you trying to hide" is the feeling she expressed.... "Porn? Dating sites? Interactions with other women? What???"
I find this interaction completely exasperating and trying. I do look at porn periodically, but not to any degree of addiction or inappropriateness.... I heard a comedienne say she enjoyed watching porn like she watches the Food Network. Fun to watch but not anything she wants to actually do. For me, it's simply an occasional masturbatory aid. I think that ought to be OK, but I do NOT think B would agree.... and I've become hardwired to avoid conflict and creating issues if I can....
Hence my clearing of the history and such. I don't remember just when I did this.... but I kind of remember being at wits end over another quiz and concern over something she'd come across on my history, etc, etc..... There'd been an issue with some old bookmarks like singlesnet.com as well as other stuff she encountered that fires up her insecurities. I was simply trying to stop a recurrence and avoid conflict.... But she found a concern and conflict ensued regardless.... sigh.
I thought we talked it out. I admitted to the occasional foray into playboy.com and blamed that and the previous conflicts for my clearing of the history. I was sure not going to admit looking at harder core stuff, LOL.
And I did all the usual honest reassurances.... I'm NOT involved with anyone else, pursuing involvement, communicating, etc, etc..... Frankly the only loose connection I have to my previous (potential) love life is that TC and I have remained loose email friends.... and I get postings from her, as part of a group she sends to, periodically. I don't feel a strong need to pursue that particular potential relationship; but should this one fail, I might return carefully to that one to see where it leads.
I am very frustrated at this point that despite assurance after assurance and repeated honest answers -- that I'm not entirely comfortable admitting to -- are still necessary and inadequate. I've TOLD B that I've NEVER had casual sex. Never had a one night stand. Never did the typical "middle aged bachelor/crazy" thing.... etc, etc. I tell her that because it is the truth. I did not have a normal male sexual development, and my relative comfort and skill (?) as a lover is despite that lack of normal development.
I find it a little shameful in a "macho male" way that I've ONLY had sexual encounters that were meaningful and only with the four women I've had a relationship with.
But she doesn't believe me.... Doesn't trust me and it would appear cannot and will never fully trust me. That is a problem.
Even more disturbing to my psyche is the fact that even though we seemed to talk this latest bit out..... she's gotten into some kind of doldrums. I don't know if she's depressed, or contemplating ending the relationship or just what. But I can tell she's bothered about something to the point of affect of mood.
Her behaviors of the last 36 hours have had some of my PTSD firing off thoroughly. She's acting a bit like M and I'm having to fight off reactions that are rooted in that awful and unhealthful relationship. The "lost years" as I think of them now.....
She's withdrawn, marginally communicative, acting like there's something on her mind that I'm supposed to draw out, yada yada yada.
It's enough to make me contemplate to a slight extent how I might react if she wants to end the relationship... or even to end it myself if it cannot be healthy, open and relatively honest. I'm rapidly losing my perception that B is in general well adjusted. Anymore I am not so sure.
I've wondered about "taking a break" but I know that that is impossible. There is no way, even if I stated a strong intent to stay physically and emotionally celibate, that she would ultimately believe I did so after a period of separation.
I'm certain with the dynamics that we have that either we have to press forward full on together and do our best to have a good relationship, or end it as amicably as we can, and leave it be. I believe B is incapable of allowing for a break or rest in the relationship and also retain trust....
That is impossible because the trust doesn't exist from the get-go.
I've been patient for 36 hours and we'll see where things go tomorrow.... But I will not continue to feel this way or otherwise seriously negative and unhealthy relationship-wise.
I would take a break and heal and be celibate for a time should we break this off.... But there is a limit to my patience and forebearance as regards this lack of trust and continued fear of abandonment....
While I don't think B is a borderline, she has some tendencies, and the inability to trust and the fear of abandonment (which she isn't all that in touch with) is BPD-like.
Been there; done that.
Wednesday, January 12, 2011
weird work day
Trying to come down off an anxious place after a very strange work day. Hopefully journaling will help.
So, after 5 days of wondering what it was my boss and my "group leader" needed to talk to me about, this a.m. the talk occurred. Not bad, but not great. Aspects give me pause.
Particularly that about a young lady student employee we recently let go who apparently made a claim at the end that she felt as if I leered at her and it made her uncomfortable. Now, the plain truth is, I did find her to be a very attractive girl. But I never ever said or did anything that would be construed as inappropriate. I suppose it's possible that my eyes lit up as she walked by, or something like that -- but that's getting into reactions that are subliminal... and I don't know how that would be read or communicated in some manner. But I know I never stared at her in some inappropriate manner or any such thing as that. I was very circumspect.
But, I know I have a manner and bearing that apparently gets easily misconstrued. That, or I telepathically communicate that I am attracted when I am. But I try to be very disciplined about not ever expressing any such thing in any manner that is under my control. I think of a young woman friend of B's and mine who we came to care a lot about.... who used to hug me at the bar where she worked..... not hugs I initiated, and nothing occurred that could be misconstrued. Just friendly hugs. But she's highly attractive and once told B in response to a statement that, "We both care about you".... that she wasn't so sure I cared about her "in the right way...." Sigh.
But I really ended up seriously unnerved late this p.m. when my "group leader" went and talked to our group of student employee supervisors, one of who is a senior with literally a Playboy build. I find her highly highly attractive.... but again, I'm careful not to say anything, do anything, or whatever, that would let on that that is the case. Frankly, she'd find it creepy (which I suppose, if expressed and pursued, it IS creepy. )
Anyway, I guess this a.m.'s meeting made me wary about several aspects of dealing with our student employees. And I am particularly wary that young J could have picked up on and complained about my attraction to her, even though it is not and never will be expressed. She's complained before about my tendency (which I think I've ceased) to "wink" when I'm talking and kidding about. She tended to take that as flirtation - which it never was. Still, it will cause me a lot more grief if she expresses further discontent or concert or discomfort regarding my bearing or dealing with her.
I don't want to be anxious about this -- and again, I know there is nothing in the shadows waiting to come out -- but I know how damaging certain accusations can be. And the group leader and this young lady conversed on their own for most of an hour.
Hopefully I've minded my p's and q's well enough that nothing more or serious will ensue.... But I am a little concerned.......
Big breath..... leave it aside. Deal with whatever comes - tomorrow!!
So, after 5 days of wondering what it was my boss and my "group leader" needed to talk to me about, this a.m. the talk occurred. Not bad, but not great. Aspects give me pause.
Particularly that about a young lady student employee we recently let go who apparently made a claim at the end that she felt as if I leered at her and it made her uncomfortable. Now, the plain truth is, I did find her to be a very attractive girl. But I never ever said or did anything that would be construed as inappropriate. I suppose it's possible that my eyes lit up as she walked by, or something like that -- but that's getting into reactions that are subliminal... and I don't know how that would be read or communicated in some manner. But I know I never stared at her in some inappropriate manner or any such thing as that. I was very circumspect.
But, I know I have a manner and bearing that apparently gets easily misconstrued. That, or I telepathically communicate that I am attracted when I am. But I try to be very disciplined about not ever expressing any such thing in any manner that is under my control. I think of a young woman friend of B's and mine who we came to care a lot about.... who used to hug me at the bar where she worked..... not hugs I initiated, and nothing occurred that could be misconstrued. Just friendly hugs. But she's highly attractive and once told B in response to a statement that, "We both care about you".... that she wasn't so sure I cared about her "in the right way...." Sigh.
But I really ended up seriously unnerved late this p.m. when my "group leader" went and talked to our group of student employee supervisors, one of who is a senior with literally a Playboy build. I find her highly highly attractive.... but again, I'm careful not to say anything, do anything, or whatever, that would let on that that is the case. Frankly, she'd find it creepy (which I suppose, if expressed and pursued, it IS creepy. )
Anyway, I guess this a.m.'s meeting made me wary about several aspects of dealing with our student employees. And I am particularly wary that young J could have picked up on and complained about my attraction to her, even though it is not and never will be expressed. She's complained before about my tendency (which I think I've ceased) to "wink" when I'm talking and kidding about. She tended to take that as flirtation - which it never was. Still, it will cause me a lot more grief if she expresses further discontent or concert or discomfort regarding my bearing or dealing with her.
I don't want to be anxious about this -- and again, I know there is nothing in the shadows waiting to come out -- but I know how damaging certain accusations can be. And the group leader and this young lady conversed on their own for most of an hour.
Hopefully I've minded my p's and q's well enough that nothing more or serious will ensue.... But I am a little concerned.......
Big breath..... leave it aside. Deal with whatever comes - tomorrow!!
Saturday, March 27, 2010
A concern with B
I have a little concern about disagreeableness that arose this past Wednesday or Thursday. I forget which. I was quite tired from being awake and up too late, etc. Apparently wasn't warm and friendly enough at our usual noontime phone conversation, and apparently my "indifferent attitude" put her off and made her pretty steamed.
When she came by after work, she was kind of spoiling for a fight. Accusing me of being manipulative and thinking she's highly dependent on me, and so on.... Frankly, a little too much like the accusations I was experiencing with M in the latter years.....
This seems to happen once in a while. The question that is running through my mind, though is.... was this really projection?? I have to wonder if these are questions and concerns running through her mind and emotions that she needs to be posing to herself..... or maybe they're rattling around and she hasn't really quite realized it....
I am a little concerned about the accusation toward me, since I am not remotely aware of any such controlling behavior, etc....
Is it my lack of self awareness?? Or hers??
When she came by after work, she was kind of spoiling for a fight. Accusing me of being manipulative and thinking she's highly dependent on me, and so on.... Frankly, a little too much like the accusations I was experiencing with M in the latter years.....
This seems to happen once in a while. The question that is running through my mind, though is.... was this really projection?? I have to wonder if these are questions and concerns running through her mind and emotions that she needs to be posing to herself..... or maybe they're rattling around and she hasn't really quite realized it....
I am a little concerned about the accusation toward me, since I am not remotely aware of any such controlling behavior, etc....
Is it my lack of self awareness?? Or hers??
PTSD sure does stick with you
Yesterday I made the error of sending an email to my Ex BPD partner to let her know about a swimsuit sale I knew she'd be interested in. Just to be nice. Big mistake.
Her reply was an excuse for her to try and engage me about a jointly held package of timeshare stays in Cancun. She's apparently feeling sorry for herself and wanting a cheap vacation -- wanted to know the status of the "freebies" for the package that "she was supposed to be able to use as part of our settlement...."
She also whined about not being able to continue to afford her house and "having to take a bath on it."
I took a walk shortly after reading the message and was very surprised at how much anxiety and reaction (PTSD) I was having. Stemmed a lot from not really wanting to try and let her know the freebies certificates expired before either of us really were ready to use them. Plus, the message was later in the afternoon -- timeframe tells me she had likely begun to drink.....
There was no way to gain anything by replying, yet anxiety arises at the reaction eventually to a lack of response. I ultimately took a page from my days going to my T -- she'd have wondered WHY I replied, had I done so.... more than implying that a healthier step would have been to simply delete it... and not to engage M..... So, that's what I did. I felt good about that. Still a little back of the mind concern about not replying.... but I am leaving it be.
The selling the house thing is/will never get any sympathy from me. As I explained to her son, when I quitclaimed the place, it was worth at least $200K with roughly $140K owed. M made the idiotic decision to roll her car loan balance of $20K or so, and heaven knows what else, into the new mortgage balance (which happened during the easy money time, just before the crash). Bottom line: she apparently now has a payment that is at least $400 per month higher than it should be.... with more prudent decision making.
PLUS, she got convinced by her on/off boyfriend to "sell" him her Vue (he still owes her a bunch apparently) and buy a new Jeep Liberty -- for payments of around $450 per month.... AND, he's helped her dig a humongous financial hole of credit card balances. This is not the extremely frugal, financially prudent woman I once loved. This is a very disabled, troubled lady that will probably never fully recover financially from her bad decisions.
I feel bad for her. But not more....
Her reply was an excuse for her to try and engage me about a jointly held package of timeshare stays in Cancun. She's apparently feeling sorry for herself and wanting a cheap vacation -- wanted to know the status of the "freebies" for the package that "she was supposed to be able to use as part of our settlement...."
She also whined about not being able to continue to afford her house and "having to take a bath on it."
I took a walk shortly after reading the message and was very surprised at how much anxiety and reaction (PTSD) I was having. Stemmed a lot from not really wanting to try and let her know the freebies certificates expired before either of us really were ready to use them. Plus, the message was later in the afternoon -- timeframe tells me she had likely begun to drink.....
There was no way to gain anything by replying, yet anxiety arises at the reaction eventually to a lack of response. I ultimately took a page from my days going to my T -- she'd have wondered WHY I replied, had I done so.... more than implying that a healthier step would have been to simply delete it... and not to engage M..... So, that's what I did. I felt good about that. Still a little back of the mind concern about not replying.... but I am leaving it be.
The selling the house thing is/will never get any sympathy from me. As I explained to her son, when I quitclaimed the place, it was worth at least $200K with roughly $140K owed. M made the idiotic decision to roll her car loan balance of $20K or so, and heaven knows what else, into the new mortgage balance (which happened during the easy money time, just before the crash). Bottom line: she apparently now has a payment that is at least $400 per month higher than it should be.... with more prudent decision making.
PLUS, she got convinced by her on/off boyfriend to "sell" him her Vue (he still owes her a bunch apparently) and buy a new Jeep Liberty -- for payments of around $450 per month.... AND, he's helped her dig a humongous financial hole of credit card balances. This is not the extremely frugal, financially prudent woman I once loved. This is a very disabled, troubled lady that will probably never fully recover financially from her bad decisions.
I feel bad for her. But not more....
Sunday, February 21, 2010
random thoughts
So, the simplest explanation is that B had a bit of a mood crash and proceeded as she did.... but that gets into lousy territory for me, that is for damn sure.
Another is that she does have an addictive disorder (that's mostly controlled) and she simply sometimes ends up abusing our joint drug of choice -- alcohol.... which gets into lousy and worrisome territory for her (and me). Now, there is not a pattern here that would support the over-use scenario -- it seems random and few and far between.
The third, really far-out possibility is that she is involved with another man and.... again, I don't think that's too likely -- but sometimes, what with the accusations toward me for other women (projection??) and the continued instability she seems to have within our relationship -- I wonder.
No, actually what I think it is is that she has BPD characteristics -- not full-blown BPD -- but characteristics. Sometimes they bubble up and when they do, I don't enjoy her very much.... not to mention, I end up having to manage my own PTSD based feelings and reactions.
So far, in this particular circumstance, I am simply giving her distance and pretty much leaving it be. I'm not trying to take responsibility that is not mine nor am I trying to "fix" anything. Nor am I taking responsibility for HER mood or fixing her feelings or giving her unnecessary and unhealthy assurances.
In other words, I THINK I am managing to let this be without having a codependent reaction or action....
And, part of me is just willing to figure she did something weird, a little passive aggressive or something, and well, the hangover is just part of her "enjoyment" LOL of her bender....
Another is that she does have an addictive disorder (that's mostly controlled) and she simply sometimes ends up abusing our joint drug of choice -- alcohol.... which gets into lousy and worrisome territory for her (and me). Now, there is not a pattern here that would support the over-use scenario -- it seems random and few and far between.
The third, really far-out possibility is that she is involved with another man and.... again, I don't think that's too likely -- but sometimes, what with the accusations toward me for other women (projection??) and the continued instability she seems to have within our relationship -- I wonder.
No, actually what I think it is is that she has BPD characteristics -- not full-blown BPD -- but characteristics. Sometimes they bubble up and when they do, I don't enjoy her very much.... not to mention, I end up having to manage my own PTSD based feelings and reactions.
So far, in this particular circumstance, I am simply giving her distance and pretty much leaving it be. I'm not trying to take responsibility that is not mine nor am I trying to "fix" anything. Nor am I taking responsibility for HER mood or fixing her feelings or giving her unnecessary and unhealthy assurances.
In other words, I THINK I am managing to let this be without having a codependent reaction or action....
And, part of me is just willing to figure she did something weird, a little passive aggressive or something, and well, the hangover is just part of her "enjoyment" LOL of her bender....
also need to write about B and her bender
I don't really know where to start here. I am having all kinds of PTSD (well, lightly -- but it's there). I've been feeling like there's some instability of mood and relationship with B that is of a concern -- too too much like what I had early on with M. And the last 18 hours have exacerbated that feeling quite a bit.
We went to A2 (the town) yesterday and had a very nice afternoon of shopping at a madhouse Trader Joe's, followed by some interesting beer and very fine pizza at a local brewpub. Quite enjoyable. After the brewpub, B took me to a local coffee place she likes and we had humongous cups of coffee drinks. Too much!!
Frankly, it was so much it didn't sit well on my stomach.... as we left the coffee place, B wondered if we were headed over to another nearby brewpub -- but I was trying to be conservative about driving back home over an hour and not getting too drowsy and such. Besides, it never hurts to be conservative about drinking and driving.
Anyway, I just sort of shrugged off the "next place" and walked us on toward the car.
After that, I don't know WHAT was going on. I felt as if I detected a big drop in mood from B -- she seemed withdrawn and distant -- and I had no context because she wasn't saying much. I know she felt chilled on the walk to the car. And, with the coffee drink bothering me, I wondered if she was having some tummy trouble too.
As we started up the street to head home, I asked, "is everything alright?"... "Yes, why??" -- and I just said (indicating if you will that she had suddenly seemed quiet), "Well, you know me - I just have a hard time reading you when you get quiet."
Not much else was said on the ride home. Had to stop for B to pee within half hour or so at a rest area.... Bout it.
Not much to go on -- just quiet and seemed withdrawn without context.... not a great place for me to have a partner.... it's tough on my psyche.
Oddly, when we got home, she continued to be a little "off". Seemed like she was either taking space or giving me space. Not sure which. But the big surprise was the amount of drinking she did -- because it was not particularly social -- we weren't watching a movie or cuddling or anything....
First, she ran her stuff from TJ's home -- which was fine... odd, but fine. Was somewhere around 8:30 when she got back to my house.
She sat in the chair as I sat on the loveseat (a little space is OK, that's NOT the issue). For reasons I don't know (she may/may not either) from the time she opened a bottle of wine and had at LEAST 1/2 to 2/3 of a bottle in 90 minutes (spilled some once, but not all that much).
That's WAY more than I've known her to drink in a short period like that. She went to bed just after 10:00, which is also pretty unheard of.
I don't know what the mood was all about, or the heavy use of wine.
But, she drank enough to get sick at about 11:30p. I heard her and it took me a few to realize what was going on. I wasn't exactly certain where I was hearing her from.... anyway, she stumbled out of the bedroom on very unsteady feet and I had to help her into the bathroom because she "needed to pee". It was obvious she was feeling worse than all that so I went and got barf bowls and put one where she could grab it while on the toilet. Also brought her a glass of water.
She proceeded to heave her guts for a short while.... once stable, I helped her back to bed.
I truly don't know what to think of this.... it's a bit of deja vu that I don't care to have, I know that!!
This morning, she was clearly a little concerned -- not overly -- but a little, and just said she was "really sorry for last night".
I thought about trying to initiate conversation about what the roots of it were, but left it for later if at all.... I read the paper, looked at the ads, and then I just went ahead and started getting myself around so that I could do something productive and useful.
She took that as a bit of a hint to head home (it was OK with me either way).
She did send a text: "Hope I didn't leave 2 abruptly. Feel a little under the weather. Need a long hot shower! Sorry about last night (again). Thx 4 being so kind."
Anyway, I am not sure what I think of this..... More in the next post
We went to A2 (the town) yesterday and had a very nice afternoon of shopping at a madhouse Trader Joe's, followed by some interesting beer and very fine pizza at a local brewpub. Quite enjoyable. After the brewpub, B took me to a local coffee place she likes and we had humongous cups of coffee drinks. Too much!!
Frankly, it was so much it didn't sit well on my stomach.... as we left the coffee place, B wondered if we were headed over to another nearby brewpub -- but I was trying to be conservative about driving back home over an hour and not getting too drowsy and such. Besides, it never hurts to be conservative about drinking and driving.
Anyway, I just sort of shrugged off the "next place" and walked us on toward the car.
After that, I don't know WHAT was going on. I felt as if I detected a big drop in mood from B -- she seemed withdrawn and distant -- and I had no context because she wasn't saying much. I know she felt chilled on the walk to the car. And, with the coffee drink bothering me, I wondered if she was having some tummy trouble too.
As we started up the street to head home, I asked, "is everything alright?"... "Yes, why??" -- and I just said (indicating if you will that she had suddenly seemed quiet), "Well, you know me - I just have a hard time reading you when you get quiet."
Not much else was said on the ride home. Had to stop for B to pee within half hour or so at a rest area.... Bout it.
Not much to go on -- just quiet and seemed withdrawn without context.... not a great place for me to have a partner.... it's tough on my psyche.
Oddly, when we got home, she continued to be a little "off". Seemed like she was either taking space or giving me space. Not sure which. But the big surprise was the amount of drinking she did -- because it was not particularly social -- we weren't watching a movie or cuddling or anything....
First, she ran her stuff from TJ's home -- which was fine... odd, but fine. Was somewhere around 8:30 when she got back to my house.
She sat in the chair as I sat on the loveseat (a little space is OK, that's NOT the issue). For reasons I don't know (she may/may not either) from the time she opened a bottle of wine and had at LEAST 1/2 to 2/3 of a bottle in 90 minutes (spilled some once, but not all that much).
That's WAY more than I've known her to drink in a short period like that. She went to bed just after 10:00, which is also pretty unheard of.
I don't know what the mood was all about, or the heavy use of wine.
But, she drank enough to get sick at about 11:30p. I heard her and it took me a few to realize what was going on. I wasn't exactly certain where I was hearing her from.... anyway, she stumbled out of the bedroom on very unsteady feet and I had to help her into the bathroom because she "needed to pee". It was obvious she was feeling worse than all that so I went and got barf bowls and put one where she could grab it while on the toilet. Also brought her a glass of water.
She proceeded to heave her guts for a short while.... once stable, I helped her back to bed.
I truly don't know what to think of this.... it's a bit of deja vu that I don't care to have, I know that!!
This morning, she was clearly a little concerned -- not overly -- but a little, and just said she was "really sorry for last night".
I thought about trying to initiate conversation about what the roots of it were, but left it for later if at all.... I read the paper, looked at the ads, and then I just went ahead and started getting myself around so that I could do something productive and useful.
She took that as a bit of a hint to head home (it was OK with me either way).
She did send a text: "Hope I didn't leave 2 abruptly. Feel a little under the weather. Need a long hot shower! Sorry about last night (again). Thx 4 being so kind."
Anyway, I am not sure what I think of this..... More in the next post
Guilt feelings about A2
Wow, it's been a while since I felt the need to journal. Meant to a few times, but never quite got to it.
Yesterday B and I went to A2's town to shop and enjoy a beer and meal. Went well, for most of the day -- more on the late day and evening in a different post.
Anyway, being in her town brought to mind, again that I've been realizing that in a way I had wronged her.
Looking back, I realize that over and over I saw and ignored the signs that she was quite in love with me. There was a time, early on, that I was with her as well -- but that seemed to me to be too likely rebound feelings -- and as time passed, I became more measured in my feelings. That's all been worked through and appropriately dealt with... since I broke off with her 2009 Labor day weekend.
I am concerned that in part, to deal with B's insecurities, I've had to completely eliminate "friendly" contact with my friend, A2. OTOH, A2 was not helping, as she did not quit expressing her loving feelings continually after I had made it clear what my posture in the situation was (friends -- moving on to another relationship -- etc). In fact, it was only a couple weeks ago I had to deal with that a bit more forcefully in an email message. The result is no contact whatsoever, or at least, not until passing contact at some mutual meeting.
I digress...
I have been examining the realization for a while that I KNEW A2 was in love with me. Long long ago..... and part of me liked that and did not choose to deal with it more "honestly".
I feel as though I wronged A2, all said and done, by not dealing with those feelings straight up when it was becoming plainer and plainer.
Forgive me....
I am unlikely to contact her through a letter or any such thing to ask for forgiveness, because I would not want to reopen the wounds of the breakup.... and I would not want to kindle some false hope for her (I know that it would....)
So again.... I'll throw this out into the universe -- A2 please forgive me for leading you on and allowing you to think there were mutual feelings of being in love and a future together.
You are a lovely, deserving woman and you'll make a wonderful companion for the right man. But, I came to know that wasn't me.... and yet I allowed you to think otherwise.
I wronged you. I'm truly sorry.
Yesterday B and I went to A2's town to shop and enjoy a beer and meal. Went well, for most of the day -- more on the late day and evening in a different post.
Anyway, being in her town brought to mind, again that I've been realizing that in a way I had wronged her.
Looking back, I realize that over and over I saw and ignored the signs that she was quite in love with me. There was a time, early on, that I was with her as well -- but that seemed to me to be too likely rebound feelings -- and as time passed, I became more measured in my feelings. That's all been worked through and appropriately dealt with... since I broke off with her 2009 Labor day weekend.
I am concerned that in part, to deal with B's insecurities, I've had to completely eliminate "friendly" contact with my friend, A2. OTOH, A2 was not helping, as she did not quit expressing her loving feelings continually after I had made it clear what my posture in the situation was (friends -- moving on to another relationship -- etc). In fact, it was only a couple weeks ago I had to deal with that a bit more forcefully in an email message. The result is no contact whatsoever, or at least, not until passing contact at some mutual meeting.
I digress...
I have been examining the realization for a while that I KNEW A2 was in love with me. Long long ago..... and part of me liked that and did not choose to deal with it more "honestly".
I feel as though I wronged A2, all said and done, by not dealing with those feelings straight up when it was becoming plainer and plainer.
Forgive me....
I am unlikely to contact her through a letter or any such thing to ask for forgiveness, because I would not want to reopen the wounds of the breakup.... and I would not want to kindle some false hope for her (I know that it would....)
So again.... I'll throw this out into the universe -- A2 please forgive me for leading you on and allowing you to think there were mutual feelings of being in love and a future together.
You are a lovely, deserving woman and you'll make a wonderful companion for the right man. But, I came to know that wasn't me.... and yet I allowed you to think otherwise.
I wronged you. I'm truly sorry.
Monday, November 16, 2009
a small contention last night
with B. My phone rang with its whistling tone I have set as A2's ring. After a while, B made it plain that my getting that call peeved her. I challenged the matter a bit, but carefully. After a time, B figured out and shared that it was "my fears" that got kicked off.
She remains more than subconscious wary that I may simply cycle through with her and return to A2 yet again.
I assured her that that was quite unlikely.... and I pointed out that I had come to know there were some serious incompatibility issues with A2.... not to mention, I had not given my heart to A2, at any point. But, I had given it to B.
Hadn't allowed myself to become quite so vulnerable as this until I did so with B....
The matter settled, for now.... Though, we observed that there may be some continued processing from how things had been last year (less fully honest). We also agreed that openness remains the preferred, if difficult, way to operate regarding my contact with A2.
She remains more than subconscious wary that I may simply cycle through with her and return to A2 yet again.
I assured her that that was quite unlikely.... and I pointed out that I had come to know there were some serious incompatibility issues with A2.... not to mention, I had not given my heart to A2, at any point. But, I had given it to B.
Hadn't allowed myself to become quite so vulnerable as this until I did so with B....
The matter settled, for now.... Though, we observed that there may be some continued processing from how things had been last year (less fully honest). We also agreed that openness remains the preferred, if difficult, way to operate regarding my contact with A2.
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Talked with A2. Mostly ok
got an email this afternoon requesting a conversation. Most of it was business related. Tale end got into that personal stuff that is an old song now....
She's feeling a little strained and overwhelmed due to quite the series of events. Current President has confided with her that she intends to step aside and retire... invoked the sisterhood/sorority bit, and pressured A2 to hold off an announcement until the Spring Assembly.
Zone director announced a field office consolidation that looks to be costing A2 her longtime support staff (who are also close friends after all these years together...) Then there's just the continuing angst, I think, she feels over not getting another chance for "us".
Her school district is showing financial strains, as are all these days. Work's less fun now than it had been.
Oh, and she's also had conversations with other friends and leaders trying to convince her to top the ticket.... for some reason, those conversations seem to bother her.
I am a bit concerned that she continues her litany of "I just don't know who I can trust" and such. Purportedly only able to trust me to be reliable with my opinion and open and call her on her stuff... etc.
It's become enough of a claim (no trust) that I find myself concerned... but without any idea about how/what to suggest, let alone, able to understand completely.
She's feeling a little strained and overwhelmed due to quite the series of events. Current President has confided with her that she intends to step aside and retire... invoked the sisterhood/sorority bit, and pressured A2 to hold off an announcement until the Spring Assembly.
Zone director announced a field office consolidation that looks to be costing A2 her longtime support staff (who are also close friends after all these years together...) Then there's just the continuing angst, I think, she feels over not getting another chance for "us".
Her school district is showing financial strains, as are all these days. Work's less fun now than it had been.
Oh, and she's also had conversations with other friends and leaders trying to convince her to top the ticket.... for some reason, those conversations seem to bother her.
I am a bit concerned that she continues her litany of "I just don't know who I can trust" and such. Purportedly only able to trust me to be reliable with my opinion and open and call her on her stuff... etc.
It's become enough of a claim (no trust) that I find myself concerned... but without any idea about how/what to suggest, let alone, able to understand completely.
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
A2 no regrets, but anxiety remains
Just thinking it wise to try and get some of my thoughts and feelings out into my journal.
Start here: I feel badly that I have (been forced t0) cut off contact for my part with A2. I had hoped to avoid that step, but for the time being, it is necessary. This, not surprisingly, causes me a degree of anxiety in that I loathe "hurting" anyone if I can avoid it. And, I am concerned about a sudden/unexpected conversation/contact that could/might occur where the hurt feelings and disappointment will come back to the fore.
In other words, I'm rather continually anxious that I may get a phone call I don't wish to answer, or an email contact that would express angst and upset and hurt.... etc.
I really had hoped that A2 would make the adjustment sooner and more adroitly than she has.
Here's what's happened:
I was on vacation (first half with B) late last month while still "on speaking terms" with A2. Well, to my chagrin, A2 texted me halfway through the week (about the time I had thought about giving her a ring). I didn't keep it, but it was something along the line of "missing you so much and I still love you and I miss out daily chats...." This over 6 weeks after I "broke up" with her. Come on!
I might have let that go by (although I didn't reply to her text or call her as I had intended to as "my friend"....)
But, then I got what my son referred to as a "drunk dialing" voicemail from her on Halloween night. It started out with the music "Wild Thing" in the background, and the message was a little self-pitying "I'm sitting here thinking of you and playing Wild Thing, (I think I "sang" that one time for her at karaoke) and missing you.... You are my world..... I just wish you'd give me a second chance...." yadayada... Additional note after some thought: what really troubled me about this voicemail was when she said, "I think your flight back is Sunday or Monday. I'm going to plan to be at the airport to greet you."
As if I haven't even told her I'm interested/involved with another.... without any details of my flight arrangements, etc, etc.... It troubled me greatly because it crossed over into "crazy". Something I'm a wee bit sensitive about.
Drunk dialing or not. It was out of line and it really really put me off.
Again, it's been WEEKS, and I've been VERY clear that I've moved on and only want to be friends. She's talked about not screwing up the friendship. Preserving it.... etc.
But, it's becoming increasingly clear that she's continuing to hope against hope " that we might get back together as a couple....
She does NOT understand that doing so is not in the cards for my part; and is antithetical to her political ambitions in our statewide organization as well.
Anyway, the result of these two untoward attempts at contact and restoration of relationship were/are that I've felt compelled to stop having communication at all. It appears to give A2 false hope. Enough of that!!
Then, we had our most recent meeting of our affliate's board of directors as well as the semi-annual delegate assembly.... I tried to be aloof and arms' length..... But, at lunch or end of the board meeting, A2 flagged me down before I left. "Remember me?? Are you still going to help me??" (with her statewide office campaign). I replied affably, but economically. She seemed a little disappointed, but not overly upset. Maybe a little relieved I remained friendly....
But, then, the next day at the assembly.... Oh my lord!! I was catching up with the aspects of the potential campaign, and announcement/strategy plans with A2's running mate.... when A2 happened by. There'd been a "bump in the road" on the announcement strategy. When A2 happened by, she glanced our direction and I responded in a breezy, friendly open manner. But, she was very upset. Tearfilled eyes. Her running mate thought it was related to the developments in the campaign and told her, "Oh, don't be so sad.... It will be all right". To which A2, barely in control (a rare, rare thing emotionally for her) said as she waved my direction, "He knows why I'm sad..."
It was going to get awkward, I'm afraid, but I was fortunately interrupted from the situation when another board member came by to visit with me. That gave A2 and me both a break from the emotionally charged situation....
Regardless, it wasn't lost on me.... and I have remained steadfast in my refusal to contact her now.
No false hope. She's having trouble making the adjustment. I can only control my actions and my choices. I choose to be very judicious now with contact, as it seems as if it's impossible for A2 to get on with things if I keep having "friendly" contact that she can interpret as hopeful.
I am quite happy with the relationship I find myself in. I don't wish to jeopardize it or complicate my life unnecessarily.
Still, the prospect of more hurt and/or some emotionally charged interaction continues to gnaw at me a bit all the time.
Time will tell.
Start here: I feel badly that I have (been forced t0) cut off contact for my part with A2. I had hoped to avoid that step, but for the time being, it is necessary. This, not surprisingly, causes me a degree of anxiety in that I loathe "hurting" anyone if I can avoid it. And, I am concerned about a sudden/unexpected conversation/contact that could/might occur where the hurt feelings and disappointment will come back to the fore.
In other words, I'm rather continually anxious that I may get a phone call I don't wish to answer, or an email contact that would express angst and upset and hurt.... etc.
I really had hoped that A2 would make the adjustment sooner and more adroitly than she has.
Here's what's happened:
I was on vacation (first half with B) late last month while still "on speaking terms" with A2. Well, to my chagrin, A2 texted me halfway through the week (about the time I had thought about giving her a ring). I didn't keep it, but it was something along the line of "missing you so much and I still love you and I miss out daily chats...." This over 6 weeks after I "broke up" with her. Come on!
I might have let that go by (although I didn't reply to her text or call her as I had intended to as "my friend"....)
But, then I got what my son referred to as a "drunk dialing" voicemail from her on Halloween night. It started out with the music "Wild Thing" in the background, and the message was a little self-pitying "I'm sitting here thinking of you and playing Wild Thing, (I think I "sang" that one time for her at karaoke) and missing you.... You are my world..... I just wish you'd give me a second chance...." yadayada... Additional note after some thought: what really troubled me about this voicemail was when she said, "I think your flight back is Sunday or Monday. I'm going to plan to be at the airport to greet you."
As if I haven't even told her I'm interested/involved with another.... without any details of my flight arrangements, etc, etc.... It troubled me greatly because it crossed over into "crazy". Something I'm a wee bit sensitive about.
Drunk dialing or not. It was out of line and it really really put me off.
Again, it's been WEEKS, and I've been VERY clear that I've moved on and only want to be friends. She's talked about not screwing up the friendship. Preserving it.... etc.
But, it's becoming increasingly clear that she's continuing to hope against hope " that we might get back together as a couple....
She does NOT understand that doing so is not in the cards for my part; and is antithetical to her political ambitions in our statewide organization as well.
Anyway, the result of these two untoward attempts at contact and restoration of relationship were/are that I've felt compelled to stop having communication at all. It appears to give A2 false hope. Enough of that!!
Then, we had our most recent meeting of our affliate's board of directors as well as the semi-annual delegate assembly.... I tried to be aloof and arms' length..... But, at lunch or end of the board meeting, A2 flagged me down before I left. "Remember me?? Are you still going to help me??" (with her statewide office campaign). I replied affably, but economically. She seemed a little disappointed, but not overly upset. Maybe a little relieved I remained friendly....
But, then, the next day at the assembly.... Oh my lord!! I was catching up with the aspects of the potential campaign, and announcement/strategy plans with A2's running mate.... when A2 happened by. There'd been a "bump in the road" on the announcement strategy. When A2 happened by, she glanced our direction and I responded in a breezy, friendly open manner. But, she was very upset. Tearfilled eyes. Her running mate thought it was related to the developments in the campaign and told her, "Oh, don't be so sad.... It will be all right". To which A2, barely in control (a rare, rare thing emotionally for her) said as she waved my direction, "He knows why I'm sad..."
It was going to get awkward, I'm afraid, but I was fortunately interrupted from the situation when another board member came by to visit with me. That gave A2 and me both a break from the emotionally charged situation....
Regardless, it wasn't lost on me.... and I have remained steadfast in my refusal to contact her now.
No false hope. She's having trouble making the adjustment. I can only control my actions and my choices. I choose to be very judicious now with contact, as it seems as if it's impossible for A2 to get on with things if I keep having "friendly" contact that she can interpret as hopeful.
I am quite happy with the relationship I find myself in. I don't wish to jeopardize it or complicate my life unnecessarily.
Still, the prospect of more hurt and/or some emotionally charged interaction continues to gnaw at me a bit all the time.
Time will tell.
Tuesday, October 6, 2009
still processing
some thoughts and feelings and remembrances of A2. I keep recollecting that I asked her outright at least twice over the time we were seeing each other if she was in love with me.
She denied it.... although I know now she was.
She denied it.... although I know now she was.
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Having to stop the direct contact for awhile
I don't want to, but I have to stop the regular contact with A2.
Last Sunday night she indicated she'll be up here on Friday, wanted to get together and "just talk". Bad idea.... That can only lead to more hurt feelings or issues.
She even went so far as to broach coming up on Thursday (to stay over with me) to better accommodate her need to see me and talk.... an even worse idea.
I've emailed her, regretfully trying to make it very clear that there isn't any going back... I'm moving on and moving forward.
The truth is, I don't have to and don't intend to cut off contact forever. Not like I had to with M. I don't feel abused, or feel like there is a lot of negative to make sure doesn't arise.... or pathology (well, other than A2's difficulty with deeper emotional connection).
I would tell her that, again, but now is not the time. Not while she continues to have hope of "putting things back together".
Better if I just fall silent with her for now.
It will be tough enough seeing one another at a meeting a week from Friday.... That is cause for a little trepidation. Not because something unpleasant may occur, but because it will still be a raw wound -- really, for both of us.
The various revelations
are continuing to rustle around in my head:
- That A2 was (probably) in love with me 2 years ago (and never said so in all these years)
- That she thought I was with my Ex last January when she unexpectedly found another car in my driveway
- That she was ready to "jump the broom" practically (after dismissing constantly the idea of ever being married again all the time previously) after getting the (inexpensive) jewelry I gave her for her b-day
- That she began to refer to us as "significant others" but without ever an expression of love.
- That my intuition about her feelings was right, right from the start.
- That she had such feelings without ever actually revealing them outright.
It is truly a tragicomedy.
Tuesday, September 29, 2009
and what I finally emailed to A2
subject: thoughts before tomorrow
You mentioned your sessions that you have set up with Nina. Here are some thoughts from my perspective that you can feel free to share (or pass this message on to her, if you like).
First, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I'm too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
(and just so it's clear, I don't intend to accommodate your request to "get together and talk" while you're in this area. It would not be appropriate, and I do not want to give any more mis-impressions than have already occurred. In fact, I'm pretty much feeling like my periodic calls keep giving you false hope of rekindling things / repairing things "soon". I don't want to give you any such impression.)
I've struggled since Sunday night after our conversation with what more I should say and how.
A few impressions and observations:
over the course of our involvement, we went from friends, to good friends, to lovers (but not "in love" in the traditional way or by words expressed) or "friends with benefits", and earlier this year, you even began to refer to me outright as "my significant other". You referred to me in that way without ever professing deeper feelings (love). To the contrary, you kept me at an emotional arms-length, with statements like “it will be a LONG time before you'll hear the “L” word come out of MY mouth. " ( Valentine's weekend this year,). Or, being scared / fearful when you thought I was saying, about to say, implying or getting close to saying "I love you", even with relatively safe statements like, “you know I love how you are” And you reacted with near-panic.
This spring, it became painfully clear to me that true, deep emotional connection and intimacy was unlikely with you unless you did a lot of work to resolve inner issues in that regard...
I began to consciously move on emotionally (within) after taking stock and after reading an article about what makes a man fall in love. The article, together with some of your fearful reactions to the idea of being "in love" caused me to examine what existed between us and understand that there really wasn't any deep sharing of emotions between us - and without that, we were not truly emotionally intimate and would not be becoming so.
And, as summer began, I had come to realize that my own feelings for you were deep friendship and deeper affection, but that I was not “in love” and didn't think that was any mutual prospect for the foreseeable future. By mid-late summer, I consciously opened up to another involvement. As that began to flower, I made a difficult decision to reduce our involvement strictly to friendship. And, Linda, that's where it has to be. I'm headed down another road. You have ambitions to pursue. This is not "our time".
I also have to say that I was truly, truly stunned to find out Sunday night that back in late January you actually thought I was with ME, my truly crazy Ex. I'm utterly flabbergasted that after knowing how far I had to come to end that relationship, and how utterly I had to cut off contact because of the craziness and crazy-making... despite knowing all that, and being there for me as I healed from that for nearly 1 1/2 years.... you thought I had reconciled with her and was entertaining her at my home.
I'm not offended, or hurt... just simply quite stunned at the revelation and the lack of understanding of me in deeper terms.
I wish you all the best in all your endeavors, and I will support you in every way that I can. But I have to be clear that I have moved on.
You mentioned your sessions that you have set up with Nina. Here are some thoughts from my perspective that you can feel free to share (or pass this message on to her, if you like).
First, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I'm too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
(and just so it's clear, I don't intend to accommodate your request to "get together and talk" while you're in this area. It would not be appropriate, and I do not want to give any more mis-impressions than have already occurred. In fact, I'm pretty much feeling like my periodic calls keep giving you false hope of rekindling things / repairing things "soon". I don't want to give you any such impression.)
I've struggled since Sunday night after our conversation with what more I should say and how.
A few impressions and observations:
over the course of our involvement, we went from friends, to good friends, to lovers (but not "in love" in the traditional way or by words expressed) or "friends with benefits", and earlier this year, you even began to refer to me outright as "my significant other". You referred to me in that way without ever professing deeper feelings (love). To the contrary, you kept me at an emotional arms-length, with statements like “it will be a LONG time before you'll hear the “L” word come out of MY mouth. " ( Valentine's weekend this year,). Or, being scared / fearful when you thought I was saying, about to say, implying or getting close to saying "I love you", even with relatively safe statements like, “you know I love how you are” And you reacted with near-panic.
This spring, it became painfully clear to me that true, deep emotional connection and intimacy was unlikely with you unless you did a lot of work to resolve inner issues in that regard...
I began to consciously move on emotionally (within) after taking stock and after reading an article about what makes a man fall in love. The article, together with some of your fearful reactions to the idea of being "in love" caused me to examine what existed between us and understand that there really wasn't any deep sharing of emotions between us - and without that, we were not truly emotionally intimate and would not be becoming so.
And, as summer began, I had come to realize that my own feelings for you were deep friendship and deeper affection, but that I was not “in love” and didn't think that was any mutual prospect for the foreseeable future. By mid-late summer, I consciously opened up to another involvement. As that began to flower, I made a difficult decision to reduce our involvement strictly to friendship. And, Linda, that's where it has to be. I'm headed down another road. You have ambitions to pursue. This is not "our time".
I also have to say that I was truly, truly stunned to find out Sunday night that back in late January you actually thought I was with ME, my truly crazy Ex. I'm utterly flabbergasted that after knowing how far I had to come to end that relationship, and how utterly I had to cut off contact because of the craziness and crazy-making... despite knowing all that, and being there for me as I healed from that for nearly 1 1/2 years.... you thought I had reconciled with her and was entertaining her at my home.
I'm not offended, or hurt... just simply quite stunned at the revelation and the lack of understanding of me in deeper terms.
I wish you all the best in all your endeavors, and I will support you in every way that I can. But I have to be clear that I have moved on.
a little more
As you work with Nina, it may be helpful for you to understand some history between us from my perspective.
And, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I’m too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
Basically kept me at “arms-length” in regard to deeper emotional intimacy
Began to broach the idea of being “significant other” without it seemingly meaning either exclusive involvement or partnership.
Later, began to outright refer to me as your significant other but never professing actually loving me. Which seemed odd….and added support to my supposition that it was too difficult for you to become truly, deeply emotionally involved….
Basically, on an emotional level, your words always kept it at a superficial level, not intimate.
Even over Valentine’s weekend this year, you stated “it will be a LONG time before you’ll hear the “L” word come out of MY mouth.
I began to consciously move on after taking stock it seemed very apparent last Spring that “love” still scared you. As I’ve told you, I have memory of at least a couple of time using the word “love” in a sentence, and the sentence was not “I love you”… more like, “you know I love how you are” or “you know I love you as you are”, that sort of thing. And you reacted with near-panic.
I also came across an article in mid-May that helped me to assess things a bit further – to examine what existed between us and understand that there really wasn’t any sharing of emotions between us – and without that, we were not truly emotionally intimate and would not be becoming so.
And, as summer began, I had come to realize that my own feelings for you were deep friendship and deeper affection, but that I was not “in love” and didn’t think that was any mutual prospect for the foreseeable future. By mid-late summer, I opened up to another involvement (actually, rekindled the old one from earlier in the year).
And, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I’m too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
Basically kept me at “arms-length” in regard to deeper emotional intimacy
Began to broach the idea of being “significant other” without it seemingly meaning either exclusive involvement or partnership.
Later, began to outright refer to me as your significant other but never professing actually loving me. Which seemed odd….and added support to my supposition that it was too difficult for you to become truly, deeply emotionally involved….
Basically, on an emotional level, your words always kept it at a superficial level, not intimate.
Even over Valentine’s weekend this year, you stated “it will be a LONG time before you’ll hear the “L” word come out of MY mouth.
I began to consciously move on after taking stock it seemed very apparent last Spring that “love” still scared you. As I’ve told you, I have memory of at least a couple of time using the word “love” in a sentence, and the sentence was not “I love you”… more like, “you know I love how you are” or “you know I love you as you are”, that sort of thing. And you reacted with near-panic.
I also came across an article in mid-May that helped me to assess things a bit further – to examine what existed between us and understand that there really wasn’t any sharing of emotions between us – and without that, we were not truly emotionally intimate and would not be becoming so.
And, as summer began, I had come to realize that my own feelings for you were deep friendship and deeper affection, but that I was not “in love” and didn’t think that was any mutual prospect for the foreseeable future. By mid-late summer, I opened up to another involvement (actually, rekindled the old one from earlier in the year).
trying to sort thoughts out before A2's therapy session tomorrow
pages, mind dumping, sorting thoughts,
A2,
I’ve struggled to collect my thoughts and figure out a way to convey some things to you. This isn’t something I want to put into email, and there’s not a good timeframe to drop a letter in the mail… and I’m not being entirely successful in trying to help you understand things in telephone conversation.
And, it’s a great concern that my attempts to stay in touch with my good friend are being interpreted as hope that we will come back together as a couple in relationship. You know I don’t want to be at all hurtful, and I’m trying to be very careful about what I say and how I say it. I refuse to say anything terribly critical of you, because you have been a great boon to my life and post-“divorce” recovery.
Still, I need to make this very clear: for the foreseeable future, there is NO going back. I didn’t lightly allow another potential love relationship to enter my psyche. And, I made a firm and clearheaded decision to move things with you to friendship, away from “partnership” and allow things to fully bloom with this other woman.
As you work with Nina, it may be helpful for you to understand some history between us from my perspective.
And, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I’m too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
So, history and observations to share…
Well, for starters, I looked back into my journal to the very early days. I recorded a nice remembrance, without elaboration, of that “anniversary day” you confessed to me last Sunday night. And, over the course of things later in Oct 2007, observations I recorded that there were appearances of us falling in love even then. And, frankly, from what you told me about where you were all that time back, it sounded as if you were actually pretty much in love with me at the time I first began to suspect it… and examine my own feelings – which at the time were that I wasn’t in love, but could get there… but that I was holding back in part to provide myself sufficient healing time so that I could love in healthy positive ways and not on some rebound basis, etc.
Meanwhile, you effectively hid your true feelings from me by encouraging me to see and date and be involved with others (“I’m your coach”; which went on for months, even after we became physically involved).
Odds and ends occurred, like my sending of thank you notes, or supportive cards after a difficult funeral, etc…. that seemed to “spook” you that I was in love with you… and you would tend to express a level of discomfort with that prospect.
Anyway, you made it abundantly clear in your words (although I did read your heart differently) that you were not interested (or capable?) of handling “being in love”…. Too hurt, too scared, too scarred…
So, I accepted that. Waited patiently for you to be able to find your own feelings and express them honestly. But, I also applied your advice in 2008 and by mid year was seriously dating another person. But, by mid-summer, I was finding myself challenged to find a balance between the two of you, not be hurtful to either of you.
Meantime, in mid-August 2008, mixed messages continued to accumulate. You apparently broached the concept of “significant other” with me, but meant it as a lighter term than I would have expected. This is reflected in my journal:
Things with LC are most interesting. Apparently she has a different definition of "significant other" than I do. She means it more in a sense of a regular/dependable partner, but not necessarily completely exclusive, and apparently, most certainly not a meaning of "married but not legally".
That was a surprise.
She and I talked this weekend and both of us seem quite comfortable with seeing a great deal more of each other.... but she's really trying not to restrict me unduly (in her opinion). As such, she avows she's OK with my possible involvement (sexually, in particular) with others. That is, as long as safe sex practices are used... AND, that I NOT feel compelled to confess, etc. I asked what she'd want to know if something came along along the lines of a tryst or sexual involvement (casual dating is clearly not an issue whatsoever). Her answer was "zero". She doesn't grudge me, but she also doesn't want to know about it.... Interesting.
I THINK her motivation is to allow me enough latitude to get anything else "out of my system" or get experiences that I haven't had as yet. I think she'd like to be certain in some way for herself that if she and I progress, I'm not going to feel regretful at what I missed or such.
Looking back, I understand how you continued to armor yourself against truly allowing a feeling of being “in love”. And later in the month my journal entries reflected my observations of you showing “loving feelings” but clearly not being comfortable with those feelings you were having. Meantime, with your blessing, I was continuing to be careful about deep emotional involvement with you or anyone and getting “too serious, too soon”.
Interestingly, I found out later after “being caught” with another in January 2009, that the conversation I am referring to above, where my interpretation was that it continued to be apropos for me to pursue other involvements, you took as meaning we had agreed to be exclusive. Hence your intense sock in late January 2009.
A2,
I’ve struggled to collect my thoughts and figure out a way to convey some things to you. This isn’t something I want to put into email, and there’s not a good timeframe to drop a letter in the mail… and I’m not being entirely successful in trying to help you understand things in telephone conversation.
And, it’s a great concern that my attempts to stay in touch with my good friend are being interpreted as hope that we will come back together as a couple in relationship. You know I don’t want to be at all hurtful, and I’m trying to be very careful about what I say and how I say it. I refuse to say anything terribly critical of you, because you have been a great boon to my life and post-“divorce” recovery.
Still, I need to make this very clear: for the foreseeable future, there is NO going back. I didn’t lightly allow another potential love relationship to enter my psyche. And, I made a firm and clearheaded decision to move things with you to friendship, away from “partnership” and allow things to fully bloom with this other woman.
As you work with Nina, it may be helpful for you to understand some history between us from my perspective.
And, speaking of working with Nina, I sincerely hope you are trying to look into your challenges in achieving emotional intimacy, and NOT pursuing some course of action that you hope will result in restoring our partnership relationship. I’m too far down another road now to go back, and continuing to entertain thoughts of “winning the relationship back” will only lead to hurt and disappointment.
So, history and observations to share…
Well, for starters, I looked back into my journal to the very early days. I recorded a nice remembrance, without elaboration, of that “anniversary day” you confessed to me last Sunday night. And, over the course of things later in Oct 2007, observations I recorded that there were appearances of us falling in love even then. And, frankly, from what you told me about where you were all that time back, it sounded as if you were actually pretty much in love with me at the time I first began to suspect it… and examine my own feelings – which at the time were that I wasn’t in love, but could get there… but that I was holding back in part to provide myself sufficient healing time so that I could love in healthy positive ways and not on some rebound basis, etc.
Meanwhile, you effectively hid your true feelings from me by encouraging me to see and date and be involved with others (“I’m your coach”; which went on for months, even after we became physically involved).
Odds and ends occurred, like my sending of thank you notes, or supportive cards after a difficult funeral, etc…. that seemed to “spook” you that I was in love with you… and you would tend to express a level of discomfort with that prospect.
Anyway, you made it abundantly clear in your words (although I did read your heart differently) that you were not interested (or capable?) of handling “being in love”…. Too hurt, too scared, too scarred…
So, I accepted that. Waited patiently for you to be able to find your own feelings and express them honestly. But, I also applied your advice in 2008 and by mid year was seriously dating another person. But, by mid-summer, I was finding myself challenged to find a balance between the two of you, not be hurtful to either of you.
Meantime, in mid-August 2008, mixed messages continued to accumulate. You apparently broached the concept of “significant other” with me, but meant it as a lighter term than I would have expected. This is reflected in my journal:
Things with LC are most interesting. Apparently she has a different definition of "significant other" than I do. She means it more in a sense of a regular/dependable partner, but not necessarily completely exclusive, and apparently, most certainly not a meaning of "married but not legally".
That was a surprise.
She and I talked this weekend and both of us seem quite comfortable with seeing a great deal more of each other.... but she's really trying not to restrict me unduly (in her opinion). As such, she avows she's OK with my possible involvement (sexually, in particular) with others. That is, as long as safe sex practices are used... AND, that I NOT feel compelled to confess, etc. I asked what she'd want to know if something came along along the lines of a tryst or sexual involvement (casual dating is clearly not an issue whatsoever). Her answer was "zero". She doesn't grudge me, but she also doesn't want to know about it.... Interesting.
I THINK her motivation is to allow me enough latitude to get anything else "out of my system" or get experiences that I haven't had as yet. I think she'd like to be certain in some way for herself that if she and I progress, I'm not going to feel regretful at what I missed or such.
Looking back, I understand how you continued to armor yourself against truly allowing a feeling of being “in love”. And later in the month my journal entries reflected my observations of you showing “loving feelings” but clearly not being comfortable with those feelings you were having. Meantime, with your blessing, I was continuing to be careful about deep emotional involvement with you or anyone and getting “too serious, too soon”.
Interestingly, I found out later after “being caught” with another in January 2009, that the conversation I am referring to above, where my interpretation was that it continued to be apropos for me to pursue other involvements, you took as meaning we had agreed to be exclusive. Hence your intense sock in late January 2009.
Sunday, September 27, 2009
"Anniversary" per A2
First, I should say that B and I are getting along beautifully well. Establishing the terms of our relationship. Getting together regularly. Taking appropriate time outs. Generally seems happy and healthy between us.
A2 continues to have a hard time letting go and moving on. She had a "confession" to make today, and I had a chance to call her per her request.
The "confession" was that it was 2 years ago today (Sunday-wise) that she invited me to her house for brunch and to visit and move things to a bit deeper level between us. Reviewing my journal, I see it was a nice day and I was "tempted to be ungentlemanly" but that I stayed to the courtesies and left at the end of the day.
Well, for her, it turns out that (as I suspected at the time -- again reflected in my journal) that she was completely UNnerved at the prospect of heading down another relationship road. She was so nervous that she threw up in the a.m. before I got there and had severe butterflies and trepidation.
She apparently emailed this "confession" to her therapist, whom she has FINALLY resumed seeing. Her therapist told her she really needed to share this info with me before her session coming up this Wed.
Well, in tonight's conversation with her, a lot came out that was hidden from me before. First and foremost (and not so hidden) she would most certainly like another shot at making things work with "us". But, I'm not there. I'm moving on and I told her that. She isn't hearing it very well, but I told her.
Anyway, apparently, she realizes now, and may have at the time, that she was probably pretty well in love with me at 2 years ago. She was fearful and cautious because she thought it was just a matter of time before I'd reconcile and go back to M. So, she didn't voice her feelings or let them be known.
I was cautious because I wanted to be careful about the "rebound" stuff. So, I recall not pushing things at all.
I can't say that she had a lot of explanation for the continued fears and reticence nearly a year after that point...
But, here's an stunner... On Jan 26, 2009 when she unexpectedly found another car in my driveway, she THOUGHT it was M's!! Despite knowing me for over a year, nearly a year and a half, and knowing that I had really had to move myself a long way to leave and could never go back unless I was as crazy as M.... Despite knowing all that, she thought I'd reconciled with M and A2 would be left in the cold....
So, that was yet more excuse, despite my clear commitment to her in the aftermath to end it with this "other woman" (which I chose; it wasn't a demand).... she still didn't confess any love for me (or allow that such expressions from me might be welcome....)
Now she's wanting to talk again FTF late this week when she will be in the area. I told her I'd think about it... but there's no reason to do so. Frankly, it's inappropriate.
I really am completely blown away about her suppositions re: M both in the beginning, and then yet again this year....
She's got more issues to deal with in therapy than she really realizes....
I tried to tell her firmly that I have moved on and that there isn't any going back and trying again. She seems unconvinced.
I may have to simply tell her outright that I love another woman. Might get my heart broken again. But, I love B and I need to let it work out as it will. It may be that the only way A2 is going to get closure is for me to strike that crueler blow of just telling her that I am not in love with her and I am in love with another....
Nuff said about that for now, though.
A2 continues to have a hard time letting go and moving on. She had a "confession" to make today, and I had a chance to call her per her request.
The "confession" was that it was 2 years ago today (Sunday-wise) that she invited me to her house for brunch and to visit and move things to a bit deeper level between us. Reviewing my journal, I see it was a nice day and I was "tempted to be ungentlemanly" but that I stayed to the courtesies and left at the end of the day.
Well, for her, it turns out that (as I suspected at the time -- again reflected in my journal) that she was completely UNnerved at the prospect of heading down another relationship road. She was so nervous that she threw up in the a.m. before I got there and had severe butterflies and trepidation.
She apparently emailed this "confession" to her therapist, whom she has FINALLY resumed seeing. Her therapist told her she really needed to share this info with me before her session coming up this Wed.
Well, in tonight's conversation with her, a lot came out that was hidden from me before. First and foremost (and not so hidden) she would most certainly like another shot at making things work with "us". But, I'm not there. I'm moving on and I told her that. She isn't hearing it very well, but I told her.
Anyway, apparently, she realizes now, and may have at the time, that she was probably pretty well in love with me at 2 years ago. She was fearful and cautious because she thought it was just a matter of time before I'd reconcile and go back to M. So, she didn't voice her feelings or let them be known.
I was cautious because I wanted to be careful about the "rebound" stuff. So, I recall not pushing things at all.
I can't say that she had a lot of explanation for the continued fears and reticence nearly a year after that point...
But, here's an stunner... On Jan 26, 2009 when she unexpectedly found another car in my driveway, she THOUGHT it was M's!! Despite knowing me for over a year, nearly a year and a half, and knowing that I had really had to move myself a long way to leave and could never go back unless I was as crazy as M.... Despite knowing all that, she thought I'd reconciled with M and A2 would be left in the cold....
So, that was yet more excuse, despite my clear commitment to her in the aftermath to end it with this "other woman" (which I chose; it wasn't a demand).... she still didn't confess any love for me (or allow that such expressions from me might be welcome....)
Now she's wanting to talk again FTF late this week when she will be in the area. I told her I'd think about it... but there's no reason to do so. Frankly, it's inappropriate.
I really am completely blown away about her suppositions re: M both in the beginning, and then yet again this year....
She's got more issues to deal with in therapy than she really realizes....
I tried to tell her firmly that I have moved on and that there isn't any going back and trying again. She seems unconvinced.
I may have to simply tell her outright that I love another woman. Might get my heart broken again. But, I love B and I need to let it work out as it will. It may be that the only way A2 is going to get closure is for me to strike that crueler blow of just telling her that I am not in love with her and I am in love with another....
Nuff said about that for now, though.
Thursday, September 10, 2009
another amusing musing
Then there was the beer. "Did you find your beer? No other man has been here drinking your beer."
Poor thing. Only doubtful in love....
Tuesday, September 8, 2009
A few musings
and remembrances from the weekend....
I think I was the only man in A2's relationship life that ever treated her entirely well. For instance, I came across a very nice microwave oven last month. Much nicer than hers, at a garage sale. Paid $5 for it and insisted she take it in trade for a small, crappy one she had (which I took to my office).
I think I was the only man in A2's relationship life that ever treated her entirely well. For instance, I came across a very nice microwave oven last month. Much nicer than hers, at a garage sale. Paid $5 for it and insisted she take it in trade for a small, crappy one she had (which I took to my office).
She still comments about how no one ever treated her so nicely as I have.
A relatively inexpensive and innocuous birthday gift had a lot of meaning for her. I think perhaps no one has given her much jewelry in the past, unless it was related to "playing" her or getting a bit more serious.....
I paid maybe $25 for a semi-precious stone birthstone necklace. Just a small ruby set in silverplate. I picked it up at a craft show and thought it would be a nice, inexpensive gift.... which I gave her on her birthday.....
A relatively inexpensive and innocuous birthday gift had a lot of meaning for her. I think perhaps no one has given her much jewelry in the past, unless it was related to "playing" her or getting a bit more serious.....
I paid maybe $25 for a semi-precious stone birthstone necklace. Just a small ruby set in silverplate. I picked it up at a craft show and thought it would be a nice, inexpensive gift.... which I gave her on her birthday.....
Well, she surprised the absolute hell out of me when one of the things she told me was that she almost told me at the time that she loved me and if that jewelry was intended to be "marital jewelry, the answer is 'yes'."
That just about blew me away.... Here I've been moving toward less involvement, disengaging and detaching.... and she was suddenly surprisingly ready to "jump the broom".
What in the world do you do with THAT kind of information??!! Going from not even being able to hear the word "love" in a sentence without reacting violently against it, never hinting at the full feeling being there.... to declaring love, over and over and as much as saying she was ready to marry!!
I can only shake my head almost in disbelief.... Wow.
Monday, September 7, 2009
Song: "Good night and thank you" from Evita. An irony
Irony upon irony upon irony commencing Saturday night and Sunday morning.
One irony was that A2 had just Saturday over the course of visiting with her long time friends told them that "I love him". And, they asked if she had EVER told me about her feelings. Of course, she had to tell them no... and then, when I dropped the bombshell on her Saturday night..... It was quite the irony.
Music and serendipity came into play, too.
With my intentions toward what had to happen with A2 clear in my mind and heart, the referenced song ran through my head, with its chorus:
- Oh but it's sad when a love affair dies
But we have pretended enough
It's best that we both stop fooling ourselves
So I downloaded it, added it to my "Recently downloaded" playlist and "shuffled" that list to play as I'm driving down to see A2 FTF, in part to help her with her visiting hospitalized friends, and in part to finish that which needed to be done FTF.
So, after driving roughly 68 of the 72 miles.... what song begins to play? Yes, the very one.
The irony as I drove up her street with the final choruses of that song playing was very, very thick. I was really quite struck by the serendipity. Quite.
Sunday, September 6, 2009
One key similarity to M
On my morning walk, I realized there is a key similarity with the relationship with A2 and that with M:
In both cases, I was meeting more of the partner's needs, than she of mine.
Now, in M's case, the needs I was meeting were in part quite pathological and related to her illness and my tendency to "caretake".
In A2's case, it's a bit different.... hard to define. She needs an anchor relationship, but with soft hands emotionally.... She's not very in touch with her own emotional needs. And, frankly, the physical distance I think worked for quite a while because of the way it introduced an element of "arms-length" to the relationship. In other words, since she finds it alarming to be "too close", the lack of proximity worked for that.
On the other hand, I need to feel strongly connected emotionally, but without the neediness and pathologies of the past.
UNlike M
At least there's this. UNlike M, I don't feel like I need to make a break with any FUTURE connection or possibilities.
There is a lot good about A2 and what we've had together. And, I won't set aside a possibility that we may one day come together in that "soul mate" way she things she's found with me. But, now is not the time.
But, as I said, with M the pathology and the lack of progress in her recovery from BPD made it absolutely necessary to break, break completely and forever.
For ME, that's not the case with A2. We'll see how she feels about a less "tight" relationship continuing hence. I don't have control over that. Although, I expect she'll need some recovery and adjustment time.
If only
she had said something last Spring when first she "realized" or actually "fell" in love....
Perhaps I would not have been open to renewing my former relationship with B.
I don't know, though. But perhaps.
Still, it's just as well. The factors and concerns that brought me to making this move are independent of things with B. I think I first began to entertain the need to "dial it down" when A2 started sounding increasingly serious about running for statewide president. As I contemplated that, I could see a future where instead of the hassle of a 75 minute commute to see each other, there's be a parsity of quality time together. The job she's going after can be very, very taxing. I think she'll need her friends (including me) to help support her.... but I am hard pressed that she could sustain HER side of a true relationship while serving in that capacity.
So, it's as well to get this change made now.... Nuff said.
and her plan
and, I can't say I'm surprised... but last night another one of the "secrets" that came out was her apparently recent decision to run. "I wanted you to be the first to know and I was going to tell you when you came down here. I bought champagne and caviar and really wanted to celebrate."
Wow.
She always has treated me well for food and drink and such.... But, still....
I was not going to say anything about how I thought the race and the service if elected would affect things. And, I likely will not.
Still, one of the things she was "going to do" was announce to all our leadership colleagues that we were a couple; quite in love with each other" etc, etc, at next month's meeting.
That would be political mistake in my opinion... so in the sense of her statewide political agenda, my desire to shift the basis of our relationship serves her better than she knows.
Note, she was going to announce a WE love each other because, as she said, she had thought that's where I was at... and only now had come to a point of admitting her own.
Now she's hurting because she realizes there is a too little / too late or a day late and a dollar short aspect of the situation....
and a future that seemed troubling to me too
And then there's the politics with the statewide organization.
I haven't said a thing about this, but have felt that if A2 decided to run for state-wide president, that was all the more reason to step back from the deeply personal. I'm not likely to be happy being the "Norm in the background" like the current president has with her hubby.
To put it another way, A2 would need to spend so much time campaigning and then in service, that I don't see where it would leave much for an "us".
Seems a little harsh. But there it is. Perhaps, she'd keep a place up in my area as well, since I live in the same town as the headquarters. And perhaps that would result in some other / more opportunity to get together.... But, right now I just think it would make it even more difficult to sustain a relationship. And, it most certainly would give her lots of other places to focus her attention other than on an "us".
And, quite frankly, I don't think she's going to be very happy in the role if she is elected. For all her brashness, she's not that big on constantly working people and being "on". She thinks she is. But it wears and wearies her.
That's what I think, anyway, FWIW
A little over the top
Nearly 15 texts, 6 or 8 emails....
I can't say that I'm surprised. Now that A2 has professed love for me, she's done so over and over and over in message after message after text after text. She really wants to come this way (or I may go hers) to do what? Some of the last things one does?? Try and salvage things? What....?
But here's the thing. When I could have fallen in love with her, she couldn't with me, or at least, couldn't face and express those feelings.
In fact, it wasn't that long ago, this winter I think, when I made idle statements that she started to interpret as "I love you" statements. Statements that were more expression of affection, acknowledgement of the deep love between good / best friends.
and it scared the HELL out of her. If she thought I was even remotely going to touch those words, she'd react, almost to the point of clapping her hands over her ears to not hear me.
I think that's when I knew it was time to rethink where things were going, or could. Other factors were involved, but that was a big one. After all the time, and plainly great connection and deep friendship (that I hope abides).... to be scared, SCARED that I might express LOVE to her.... that came to be too much. Too clear that her emotional intimacy issues need some solid work.
Other things niggled, but were less of a triggering factor. She's not very affectionate. Likes an occasional private hug, to greet, leave, etc. Not much for kissing (blames MY breathe -- coffee/beer -- but even good thorough mouth cleansing didn't make much dent in the lack of kissing stuff). She's very dim on public display like holding hands, or arms around, etc.
And, she's really a bit narcissistic. A 30 minute phone conversation will be no more than 5 minutes of words from me (I know I can be taciturn, but really). She can go on and on about what's on her mind or the latest intrigue in her unit or with the state affiliate. Never much about feelings or personal topics, unless you include the worry over some temporarily infirm friends that she's worried about and visiting regularly.
Last thing that strikes me is her most annoying tendency to give advice when none is asked for. Often with the poisonness words, "You should..." It's a communication style more typical of a man. Anyway, being an extrovert, I like to talk about concerns and issues out loud to help sort and talk them through. But, I'm not necessarily looking for advice. I usually just sloughed it off. But, it was / is an annoyance.
Saturday, September 5, 2009
the incessance
In contrast to the way B simply "walked away" at the time and left things be and let go....
A2 is doing the incessant call / text message thing tonight. Not surprised.
I may go her way tomorrow to finish talking things through. We'll see.
A fine mess
I've told A2 that I need to move us to a friendship footing... which of course led to having to elaborate. I kind of expected that if I started into the matter on the phone, she'd want to hear the whole horror.
I tried to keep it pretty simple. Simply told her that we were in different places; that she'd seemed to think we were "exclusive" and "significant others"... but that I wasn't and hadn't been in that place. She pushed for more, and all the more real info I would give her was that "I've met someone in this area that I'm very interested in and I want to see where it goes."
Then, she dropped the "L" bomb... and told me (quite too late, now) that "I love you". Says she realized it at my last concert.... nearly told me at a business event.... and had been planning to let me, and all our friends and leadership peers know at the next meeting of our Board, in October.
She admitted she had not been "brave enough" to say so until now.
It's exactly what I was afraid of, and frankly, how I was reading the situation. But, I'd not gotten to my place without a lot of thought and deliberation.
I know I'm not in love with her. I'm fairly certain I'm in love with B, though. With A2, the feelings haven't gone beyond strong friendship for my part. And, frankly, I know that once getting to that point of realization, it might be cruel to "lead her on" in some way, as if I felt more strongly.
But, I'm firm in my resolve. I may go and visit to wrap stuff up and do the march we're supposed to do. But, I'm firm that I need to dial down A2, and "clear the decks" to see what develops with B.
That's part of what I did last February in breaking off with B; making room for me and A2 to become all that we were going to.... For me, it's not "in love". It's simply great, strong affection for a wonderful friend. I deeply care about her. But I'm not in love with her.
I hope all this doesn't break her heart for all time, and there's part of me that thinks a future could, at some point, develop there. It's not a strong possibility. But, still strikes me.
The limitations A2 has on her ability to display affection and move into deeper intimacy are a pretty severe detriment, though.
My head hurts a bit from the angst and difficulty of having such conversation. Time for bed in a moment.
It has come to the time
to try, try, try to move A2 to friendship footing. I hope it can be done without too much hurt or without losing the friendship completely.
But the fact is, I'm not in love with her. Didn't fall in love with her.... and when feelings might have approached that, she was unable to cross the line anyway. There are numerous ways in which as a "relationship" possibility, that situation falls short. Commuter relationship. Lack of displayed affection. Inability to actually "love".....
Plus, I'm pretty much in love with B. Let her back in my life, and tumbled quickly into love. Or so it feels... and it's scary. "Loving" was not kind to me with M. I'm not altogether certain I am healed enough to truly love and have it last. But, it looks like I'm going to travel that road for awhile with B. As they say, a person comes into your life for a season, a reason, or a lifetime. Time will tell.
Monday, August 24, 2009
When, how, what with A2?
Then there comes the question.... If I truly feel that in terms of relationship and deeper intimacy, that which I have with A2 is pretty superficial... .How long should I let that continue??
How do I move to a more honest situation between her and I? And how do I do that with a minimum of hurtfulness??
Will the friendship endure??
A2 thinks of me as her significant other. I haven't been comfortable with that since she started using the term. But, that's where she is....
My, my, my....
How do I move to a more honest situation between her and I? And how do I do that with a minimum of hurtfulness??
Will the friendship endure??
A2 thinks of me as her significant other. I haven't been comfortable with that since she started using the term. But, that's where she is....
My, my, my....
Have I hardened my heart?
What is love? How do you find healthy love?
How long will I distrust my heart....??
How do I distinguish between love, person addiction, or infatuation?
I feel like I'm 16 and I am really lost....
How long will I distrust my heart....??
How do I distinguish between love, person addiction, or infatuation?
I feel like I'm 16 and I am really lost....
So, now what?
ssThat is the question that arises.... A2 calls at somewhat earlier times than she had been in the habit of.... 9ish instead of the usual 10 p.m.... Partly because I've been less accessible due to B's visits... Partly, I am thinking, because she's getting suspicious.... Fair enough.
B and I had some notable conversation last night as I gingerly broached the fact that we've become fully sexual, which brings up issues of sexual health and safety. (B has latex sensitivity, and hence tends toward unprotected sex, when she feels physically and emotionally safe to have it....
I had been wondering what other involvements she may have or have had since last February. I also was certain that she's rightfully been wondering about my situation with A2. B deferred to me going first, since I brought the subject matter up.... and I told her point-blank that my situation had not changed. No other involvements. But, still a sexual connotation to my friendship with A2.
I don't recall the whole conversation in series, but we covered important aspects.... She indicated she had not mentioned the one gentleman (W) that I knew she was also involved with last winter because she's no longer involved with him. She indicated she'd done a lot of dating since I broke things off with her. But, as for my concern that a flippant remark she'd made about "the whole hooking up with internet dates ..... " it had no sexual reference as she meant it. Just meant to say it's a weird dating world to dive into.
She is also seeing "Bob". Slightly attracted to him, but not nearly to the extent that she is to me. She "could" become sexual with Bob, but has not as yet.... She made it plain she'd frankly rather get full blown into a relationship with me. (Funny, I think we already have one...)
By that, I'm given to understand a full-time (with space for each of us, of course), exclusive situation. No doubt, she'd keep her apartment.....
I asked her straight up: "Do you love me?" Meaning, as she clearly understood, "Are you in love with me?". She said, "I think I might be. Pretty much.".
I admitted to her (not without trepidation) that I'm having similar thoughts....
She did say, though, that if I was going to continue to have a deep relationship with A2, that things between us would need to stay pretty static -- where they are (not ceasing, not deepening involvement either one). And, she wasn't going to remain exclusive with me if the fact of the situation with A2 remains as it is.
I find that fair. I wasn't presuming B and I were exclusive, so I hadn't contemplated her feeling of exclusiveness with me, while I continue to nurture two vital, important relationships....
Anyway, what I told her re: A2 is exactly how I feel. I care a lot for her. It's a very deep friendship. But, after the time that's gone by, I would expect to be in love with her if that's where that was going to go. But it hasn't. (Truly, that was one of my purposes in ending things with B last February -- to "clear the decks" so that A2 and I could become as deeply involved as we could.... I have come to realize that the friendship is fairly deep... but intimacy-wise, it's superficial between us.... THAT is probably a whole different posting....)
I went on to say, "I'll put it this way. I know I am not in love with A2. I cannot say that about you. I'm not saying I AM in love. But I also cannot say that I am NOT.
We also explored a bit why I had put things before with the breakup in terms of my emotional UNhealth. B still took / assumed some responsibility even though I tried to make it clear that it was not who / what she was or anything she was particularly doing.
I explained, as best I could, that for any number of reasons, finding it harder to read B, for instance, being pretty sensitive to how she might react, etc, etc.... I had tended to fall back into an old, unhealthy emotional pattern. Avoidance, PTSD reactions.... etc. I tried very hard to make it clear that it was ME. Not her. ME.
I further stated that going down this conversational road was in part due to my trying hard not to repeat that set of behaviors with her this time.
I think the conversation went fairly well. I suspect from a text message I received that B is still a bit bothered by some aspects.... But I do think it went well.
I'd like to think we have a friendship bond that will last. It may very well become a love relationship bond for a time as well. I'm just not buying that I'm ready for that one last time and forever relationship just yet.
But, as they say, people come into your life for a reason, season, or a lifetime.
I think it's unlikely that I've found anyone yet to be that one for the rest of my lifetime.
B and I had some notable conversation last night as I gingerly broached the fact that we've become fully sexual, which brings up issues of sexual health and safety. (B has latex sensitivity, and hence tends toward unprotected sex, when she feels physically and emotionally safe to have it....
I had been wondering what other involvements she may have or have had since last February. I also was certain that she's rightfully been wondering about my situation with A2. B deferred to me going first, since I brought the subject matter up.... and I told her point-blank that my situation had not changed. No other involvements. But, still a sexual connotation to my friendship with A2.
I don't recall the whole conversation in series, but we covered important aspects.... She indicated she had not mentioned the one gentleman (W) that I knew she was also involved with last winter because she's no longer involved with him. She indicated she'd done a lot of dating since I broke things off with her. But, as for my concern that a flippant remark she'd made about "the whole hooking up with internet dates ..... " it had no sexual reference as she meant it. Just meant to say it's a weird dating world to dive into.
She is also seeing "Bob". Slightly attracted to him, but not nearly to the extent that she is to me. She "could" become sexual with Bob, but has not as yet.... She made it plain she'd frankly rather get full blown into a relationship with me. (Funny, I think we already have one...)
By that, I'm given to understand a full-time (with space for each of us, of course), exclusive situation. No doubt, she'd keep her apartment.....
I asked her straight up: "Do you love me?" Meaning, as she clearly understood, "Are you in love with me?". She said, "I think I might be. Pretty much.".
I admitted to her (not without trepidation) that I'm having similar thoughts....
She did say, though, that if I was going to continue to have a deep relationship with A2, that things between us would need to stay pretty static -- where they are (not ceasing, not deepening involvement either one). And, she wasn't going to remain exclusive with me if the fact of the situation with A2 remains as it is.
I find that fair. I wasn't presuming B and I were exclusive, so I hadn't contemplated her feeling of exclusiveness with me, while I continue to nurture two vital, important relationships....
Anyway, what I told her re: A2 is exactly how I feel. I care a lot for her. It's a very deep friendship. But, after the time that's gone by, I would expect to be in love with her if that's where that was going to go. But it hasn't. (Truly, that was one of my purposes in ending things with B last February -- to "clear the decks" so that A2 and I could become as deeply involved as we could.... I have come to realize that the friendship is fairly deep... but intimacy-wise, it's superficial between us.... THAT is probably a whole different posting....)
I went on to say, "I'll put it this way. I know I am not in love with A2. I cannot say that about you. I'm not saying I AM in love. But I also cannot say that I am NOT.
We also explored a bit why I had put things before with the breakup in terms of my emotional UNhealth. B still took / assumed some responsibility even though I tried to make it clear that it was not who / what she was or anything she was particularly doing.
I explained, as best I could, that for any number of reasons, finding it harder to read B, for instance, being pretty sensitive to how she might react, etc, etc.... I had tended to fall back into an old, unhealthy emotional pattern. Avoidance, PTSD reactions.... etc. I tried very hard to make it clear that it was ME. Not her. ME.
I further stated that going down this conversational road was in part due to my trying hard not to repeat that set of behaviors with her this time.
I think the conversation went fairly well. I suspect from a text message I received that B is still a bit bothered by some aspects.... But I do think it went well.
I'd like to think we have a friendship bond that will last. It may very well become a love relationship bond for a time as well. I'm just not buying that I'm ready for that one last time and forever relationship just yet.
But, as they say, people come into your life for a reason, season, or a lifetime.
I think it's unlikely that I've found anyone yet to be that one for the rest of my lifetime.
Friday, August 21, 2009
Weird-ass mood I'm in
Back to seeing B regularly, but trying to keep a lid on it. Still close with A2, but troubled that I don't see that relationship becoming deeply loving and affectionate. It will always be some variation of close friendship, perhaps with benefits for however that lasts.... but I don't see it becoming more....
With B, I am back to being totally confused about my feelings toward her. I can't tell the difference between perhaps, just perhaps, being "in love" vs just plain relationship / person addiction. I'm really quite flummoxed.
That one is a far more affectionate relationship when we get together. We both find it easy to be with the other. Goddammit. I just don't know what the hell....
I also have found myself intrigued, surprised (but not really troubled) by jealousy toward her. I presume she sees others, as she presumes of me... .I expect her to be tolerant of my freedom and other interests.. and I should be of hers.... Yet, more than a few times, when I've not reached her... I've presume she's dating or with another gentleman... and I'm actually a bit jealous of it. An odd feeling for me.
I'm looking for the right conversational time to bring truths, from both of us, out into the open. I'd like to think that I / we could handle being a bit more open and honest about each other and other involvements.... but, who knows for sure...
And then... there's the new possibility on the horizon. Old flame from high school, living in FL, who has come back into my universe. Strictly email friends right now. S hasn't even braved phoning me even though she has my number. She also hasn't shared whether she's seeing anyone there nor asked about my dating life.... Interesting. She's worn well through the years.
another story... maybe much yet to be told....
and Mel.... seems to be cold and out of the picture for this lifetime. I know there's a strong metaphysical connection... but she's not seeming to get over her angst....
Friday, August 7, 2009
Michelle and Jackie
Just recording a pleasant memory. Went to Harpers tonight to drink craft beer and listen to the music on one of the stages for the local folk festival. Conversation struck up with two very beautiful young women, 21 y.o.. Michelle, from Grand Rapids, and Jackie from Okemos. Very smart young women who did their BAs in 3 years and have each started second degree programs.
I think I was some safe, male energy for them. They talked (esp Jackie) about how intimidating guys their age find smart, independent, self-assured women. We had great conversation and camaraderie. But, nothing that crossed any lines and nothing tawdry.
They were headed to a local dance club afterwards that I would have had to beg off of, had they invited me along. Too loud and smoky!
But I definitely hope to encounter them again. I appreciated their energy and conversation, and I think the inverse was also true.
Sunday, August 2, 2009
Shivered
Today's horoscope (Holiday Mathis) for me:
LIBRA (Sept. 23-Oct. 23). You'll meet your match. Either this person is so much like you that you'll be talking for hours or so different from you that you'll be listening for hours. Either way, there's fantastic chemistry.
SCORPIO (Oct. 24-Nov. 21). You'll be filled with strong feelings. Your passion can move mountains if you apply it well. Contain your enthusiasm just enough to match the tone of your surroundings and then bring it up notch by notch.
and.... well, what has happened but one of my favorite GFs from High School just today confirmed me as a friend on FB... AND put up pix before the end of the day AND still seems quite comely to me at this point....
I wonder..... Truly gives me a touch of the shivers....
Plus, I had been thinking about where to try and vacation yet this year "on my own"... I had had a fleeting thought about Daytona Fl.... and guess where SP lives?? Yup. Not quite jumping to make the reservations.... but.... it is crossing my mind. Let things develop over a few days and see...
Still, even if it was just a connection with an old classmate and sweetheart in the area... why not??
hmmmm......
Wednesday, July 29, 2009
Advice Goddess Alkon
got a kick out of the latest column
http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-3272-buy-sexual-and-boys-r-us.html
Polyamory -- honestly, still the relationship construct I would prefer
http://www.newsweek.com/id/209164/
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
A follow-up to the previous message.
From http://www.psych.uiuc.edu/~rcfraley/attachment.htm
Not much different from me and my own situation!!.
Friday, July 24, 2009
Passionate "early" love explained?
Well, especially as I contemplate that which I previously posted.. the following article / reference helps explain a LOT!!
From UTNE Reader, July-August 2009
Hunka Hunka Burnin’ Nerves
by Julie Hanus
Ah, love: that yearning, burning, transcendently punch-drunk state of being. And it all begins with . . . attachment anxiety? For decades, researchers have probed the origin of love, tediously mining questionnaires and surveys for clues as to how sparks fly (and which ones stay lit). Now they’re making game-changing discoveries, reports Science News (Feb. 14, 2009), thanks to a distinctly modern opportunity to do field research: speed dating.
“Speed-dating investigations . . . illuminate a considerable gap between what people say they’re looking for in a romantic partner and traits of the people they actually want to go out with,” behavioral sciences editor Bruce Bower writes. Stereotypical points of allure, like physical attractiveness and financial stability, are less important than people tend to estimate when filling out surveys after the fact. Instead, relationships seem to blossom out of nervousness. Specifically, the anxiety of yearning for deep, emotionally attached love—the sort of connection that takes years to form—and not being sure if the fantasy is reciprocated.
In one study, psychologists at Northwestern University conducted speed-dating events with 160 college-age participants, who then reported on their love lives over the next month. More than any other factor, apprehension regarding a partner’s feelings prompted continued interest in the relationship (note from BH: LOTS to think about here. This is kind of how I feel toward B, but it is also very close to how one can feel when you are addicted in a relationship or you care for someone with BPD. No wonder I find it soooo confusing.). Daters who felt undesired jumped ship (no hope), but so did daters who felt too desired (no uncertainty) (note from BH: this is close to what I feel re: A2, and I do wonder about the longterm, sticking around, leaving, etc). “It is almost as if a central component of passionate love is [having] the fantasy that one will ultimately possess an attachment bond with the desired partner,” one of the researchers told Science News. But not being sure it’s in the bag.
From UTNE Reader, July-August 2009
Hunka Hunka Burnin’ Nerves
by Julie Hanus
Ah, love: that yearning, burning, transcendently punch-drunk state of being. And it all begins with . . . attachment anxiety? For decades, researchers have probed the origin of love, tediously mining questionnaires and surveys for clues as to how sparks fly (and which ones stay lit). Now they’re making game-changing discoveries, reports Science News (Feb. 14, 2009), thanks to a distinctly modern opportunity to do field research: speed dating.
“Speed-dating investigations . . . illuminate a considerable gap between what people say they’re looking for in a romantic partner and traits of the people they actually want to go out with,” behavioral sciences editor Bruce Bower writes. Stereotypical points of allure, like physical attractiveness and financial stability, are less important than people tend to estimate when filling out surveys after the fact. Instead, relationships seem to blossom out of nervousness. Specifically, the anxiety of yearning for deep, emotionally attached love—the sort of connection that takes years to form—and not being sure if the fantasy is reciprocated.
In one study, psychologists at Northwestern University conducted speed-dating events with 160 college-age participants, who then reported on their love lives over the next month. More than any other factor, apprehension regarding a partner’s feelings prompted continued interest in the relationship (note from BH: LOTS to think about here. This is kind of how I feel toward B, but it is also very close to how one can feel when you are addicted in a relationship or you care for someone with BPD. No wonder I find it soooo confusing.). Daters who felt undesired jumped ship (no hope), but so did daters who felt too desired (no uncertainty) (note from BH: this is close to what I feel re: A2, and I do wonder about the longterm, sticking around, leaving, etc). “It is almost as if a central component of passionate love is [having] the fantasy that one will ultimately possess an attachment bond with the desired partner,” one of the researchers told Science News. But not being sure it’s in the bag.
Seeing B again, occasionally
and I like it.
but I remain confused about my feelings toward / for her.... vs A2 vs healthy emotional attachment vs relationship addiction.
but I remain confused about my feelings toward / for her.... vs A2 vs healthy emotional attachment vs relationship addiction.
Tuesday, June 23, 2009
FB Lifetime match
quiz results interesting.... B has a lot of Virgo in her.... that might be some of the draw.... (might also be like a moth to a flame....)
completed the quiz "Who is your lifetime match?" with the result They are born between 24th August - 23rd September.
You're a big dreamer and in love, you're looking for the one. It's not easy as you find lots of flaws with all the potential lovers that cross your path. But you don't give up hope and continue your quest come hell or high water. As you get older, you lower your expectations and end up telling yourself that perfection maybe doesn't exist after all. You therefore find yourself content with a caring, intelligent and affectionate person (wealth isn't important to you, it's just an accessory that's of no real concern for you). And you love them loads... A bit too much, perhaps! Careful not to smother them. You will make their dreams come true through just being you. They will feel they can show how they really feel to you because of your open nature inspires them to open up to you. Probably only you will know how sensitive, gentle and romantic they can be. They can learn a lot from you. Therefore you complete each other..
completed the quiz "Who is your lifetime match?" with the result They are born between 24th August - 23rd September.
You're a big dreamer and in love, you're looking for the one. It's not easy as you find lots of flaws with all the potential lovers that cross your path. But you don't give up hope and continue your quest come hell or high water. As you get older, you lower your expectations and end up telling yourself that perfection maybe doesn't exist after all. You therefore find yourself content with a caring, intelligent and affectionate person (wealth isn't important to you, it's just an accessory that's of no real concern for you). And you love them loads... A bit too much, perhaps! Careful not to smother them. You will make their dreams come true through just being you. They will feel they can show how they really feel to you because of your open nature inspires them to open up to you. Probably only you will know how sensitive, gentle and romantic they can be. They can learn a lot from you. Therefore you complete each other..
Sunday, May 31, 2009
Druidcraft tarot A2
Rode my bike, trying to assess and sort thoughts... Feeling weary (and allergic!!).
Did a Druidcraft tarot, hexagram spread regarding matters with A2.
It seems to indicate I need to withdraw a bit and do more inner work... not sure what to make of it.
the cast:
Card 1, apparent, conscious issue
The Hermit
seems to indicate I'm again at a stage where I need to withdraw a bit, retreat, seek guidance, let things take care of themselves as they will. Silence and solitude to refresh the soul.
Card 2, point of tension
10 of Pentacles
talks of balance and blessings (sending and receiving). I almost feel like this card is indicating that there is a barrier aspect of the relationship with A2 that is preventing me from receiving all the blessings that might come my way.
I think it also indicates that this has been a mutually blessed/blessing relationship, but things may be out of balance in some ways.
Card 3, way to resolution
3 of swords
Heartache, potential for transformation. "out of heartache can come healing and the maturing of our ability to love. A love triangle.... temporary separation.... true growth and transformation...."
Card 4, the unrevolved or unconscious inner determinant
10 of swords
May be indicating that "a long-term situation - a relationship - may have come to an end..."
I wonder if I'm unconsciously (or maybe not so unconsciously) gearing up to move the relationship with A2 more to a friendship setting and less a "love" relationship...
Card 5, the pivot of change
King of swords, inverted
talks of the deliberate withholding of information (I take this to also be a reference to A2's reluctance to go "too deep" with the relationship -- her emotional intimacy issues she hasn't faced, and likely won't.
"the ability to communicate clearly and objectively may have become distorted...."
Card 6, the key to harmony
3 of cups, inverted
Points back at the need to pay attention to my inner needs. May be indicating too much focus on the relationship with A2 to the detriment of other interests, opportunities, and neglect of my own, and my inner needs.
Look within.
So this reading starts and ends with a reflection of a need to be more contemplative -- turn inward. Think on things, so to speak.
Did a Druidcraft tarot, hexagram spread regarding matters with A2.
It seems to indicate I need to withdraw a bit and do more inner work... not sure what to make of it.
the cast:
Card 1, apparent, conscious issue
The Hermit
seems to indicate I'm again at a stage where I need to withdraw a bit, retreat, seek guidance, let things take care of themselves as they will. Silence and solitude to refresh the soul.
Card 2, point of tension
10 of Pentacles
talks of balance and blessings (sending and receiving). I almost feel like this card is indicating that there is a barrier aspect of the relationship with A2 that is preventing me from receiving all the blessings that might come my way.
I think it also indicates that this has been a mutually blessed/blessing relationship, but things may be out of balance in some ways.
Card 3, way to resolution
3 of swords
Heartache, potential for transformation. "out of heartache can come healing and the maturing of our ability to love. A love triangle.... temporary separation.... true growth and transformation...."
Card 4, the unrevolved or unconscious inner determinant
10 of swords
May be indicating that "a long-term situation - a relationship - may have come to an end..."
I wonder if I'm unconsciously (or maybe not so unconsciously) gearing up to move the relationship with A2 more to a friendship setting and less a "love" relationship...
Card 5, the pivot of change
King of swords, inverted
talks of the deliberate withholding of information (I take this to also be a reference to A2's reluctance to go "too deep" with the relationship -- her emotional intimacy issues she hasn't faced, and likely won't.
"the ability to communicate clearly and objectively may have become distorted...."
Card 6, the key to harmony
3 of cups, inverted
Points back at the need to pay attention to my inner needs. May be indicating too much focus on the relationship with A2 to the detriment of other interests, opportunities, and neglect of my own, and my inner needs.
Look within.
So this reading starts and ends with a reflection of a need to be more contemplative -- turn inward. Think on things, so to speak.
mulling
I'm tired this a.m.. got nearly 8 hours of sleep, but still tired.
Mulling things over regarding A2. Random thoughts over the last hours and weeks...
I've tried to "be exclusive" since Feb 14/15 after I'd had time to assess and break things off with B (I'm still of confused mind about her, I think, though).
But, it's become apparent to me that it would be pretty tough to sustain a full blown signficant other / exclusive relationship with A2 from 72 miles away.
For me, a number of signs arise that indicate I'm not nearly "there" emotionally.... For starters, I never completely let down on idling around on POF and Yahoo personals looking for connections and possible casual / social dating.
My head has been examining the idea that after all this time of close relationship, and having "cleared the decks" from having any other significant emotional attachment or involvement, it seems like A2 and I ought to be pretty well IN LOVE if we're going to get there...
I think I want more local connection for the prospect that offers of not being home alone quite so much.
A2 has continued to do emotional arms-length stuff over the period at times. She continues to be armored against getting too completely emotionally attached. I think sometimes she moves that way, it scares her, and she backs away....
I think I want to achieve greater depth of emotional intimacy than A2 is probably capable of... whatever that means. I know I'm pretty open with my heart, to an extent my feelings... but I grew very cautious about how I express myself over the last several years with M.... and I regularly apply that caution to interchanges with A2.
A2 has off and on encouraged me to keep looking and experiencing other relationships, but I have been concerned that that is an intellectual, not emotional suggestion she makes.... well, the latter in a sense because it's another form of distancing.
She also refers to her expectation that I will let her down or betray her as other men have.... making remarks about how she assumes sooner or later I'll be involved with someone else, being cautious about ever making another "surprise visit", and all that.
Anyway, I've been mulling over for a while the ideas that I have been getting mixed messages from her for some time, we're not "in love", and what all this might mean.
I've also said nothing about certain larger political decisions she is contemplating. Running successfully for a high office in a political association we're involved in would increase her time in my town, but also vastly decrease her availability for a relationship. I don't think I want to make that any part of HER considerations of that opportunity, but I think about it and its effect on "us" if there is to be an "us".
And, when I'm honest with myself, I don't really see myself falling head over heels "in love" with A2. The relationship with her offers the prospect of long-term solidity, "life-mate", but not "soul-mate" potentially.... Not a bad prospect, but part of me wants to continue to see what good match all around, interests, temperament, age, looks, emotional, energetic, spiritual.... what I can find.
If I stick to A2, will I be "settling" in some manner??
I still think about how, together, the two relationships I'd had going were the ideal woman for me -- taken together.... although the full honesty with A2 was missing....
and that continues to be missing... interesting....
Mulling things over regarding A2. Random thoughts over the last hours and weeks...
I've tried to "be exclusive" since Feb 14/15 after I'd had time to assess and break things off with B (I'm still of confused mind about her, I think, though).
But, it's become apparent to me that it would be pretty tough to sustain a full blown signficant other / exclusive relationship with A2 from 72 miles away.
For me, a number of signs arise that indicate I'm not nearly "there" emotionally.... For starters, I never completely let down on idling around on POF and Yahoo personals looking for connections and possible casual / social dating.
My head has been examining the idea that after all this time of close relationship, and having "cleared the decks" from having any other significant emotional attachment or involvement, it seems like A2 and I ought to be pretty well IN LOVE if we're going to get there...
I think I want more local connection for the prospect that offers of not being home alone quite so much.
A2 has continued to do emotional arms-length stuff over the period at times. She continues to be armored against getting too completely emotionally attached. I think sometimes she moves that way, it scares her, and she backs away....
I think I want to achieve greater depth of emotional intimacy than A2 is probably capable of... whatever that means. I know I'm pretty open with my heart, to an extent my feelings... but I grew very cautious about how I express myself over the last several years with M.... and I regularly apply that caution to interchanges with A2.
A2 has off and on encouraged me to keep looking and experiencing other relationships, but I have been concerned that that is an intellectual, not emotional suggestion she makes.... well, the latter in a sense because it's another form of distancing.
She also refers to her expectation that I will let her down or betray her as other men have.... making remarks about how she assumes sooner or later I'll be involved with someone else, being cautious about ever making another "surprise visit", and all that.
Anyway, I've been mulling over for a while the ideas that I have been getting mixed messages from her for some time, we're not "in love", and what all this might mean.
I've also said nothing about certain larger political decisions she is contemplating. Running successfully for a high office in a political association we're involved in would increase her time in my town, but also vastly decrease her availability for a relationship. I don't think I want to make that any part of HER considerations of that opportunity, but I think about it and its effect on "us" if there is to be an "us".
And, when I'm honest with myself, I don't really see myself falling head over heels "in love" with A2. The relationship with her offers the prospect of long-term solidity, "life-mate", but not "soul-mate" potentially.... Not a bad prospect, but part of me wants to continue to see what good match all around, interests, temperament, age, looks, emotional, energetic, spiritual.... what I can find.
If I stick to A2, will I be "settling" in some manner??
I still think about how, together, the two relationships I'd had going were the ideal woman for me -- taken together.... although the full honesty with A2 was missing....
and that continues to be missing... interesting....
Saturday, May 30, 2009
concert
was nice... on the other hand, I saw my old love interest there (alone) as I'm there with my date....
Brings up interesting feelings....
I don't know why I seem to be having a hard time completely shaking my feelings for B.
Not sure if I cared for her more than I realized, or am missing a convenient, but interesting, addictive relationship.
I just don't know....
It would be really easy to try and strike something back up... but, I think I need to not do that for a whole host of reasons.... I still don't think it was, or would be, an entirely healthy relationship. Some of that lack of health came from her, some from the relationship dynamics, much from within me within the context of that relationship.
hmmmmm.....
Brings up interesting feelings....
I don't know why I seem to be having a hard time completely shaking my feelings for B.
Not sure if I cared for her more than I realized, or am missing a convenient, but interesting, addictive relationship.
I just don't know....
It would be really easy to try and strike something back up... but, I think I need to not do that for a whole host of reasons.... I still don't think it was, or would be, an entirely healthy relationship. Some of that lack of health came from her, some from the relationship dynamics, much from within me within the context of that relationship.
hmmmmm.....
sigh..... A2
I'm a little tired.... a little pensive.... a little bothered. Apparently A2 and I have entered that "expectations" phase of the relationship. Sigh.
I'm not sure how much of it is her wariness of being fully, deeply immersed in a relationship, and how much it's me not quite wanting to go there, yet, with her (or maybe anyone)....
I do think it's too soon to be deep and "permanent" in thoughts....
Anyway, we've seen each other every week / weekend of the month of May, save this one...
So, earlier this week when I saw a concert of interest coming up for tonight, I took the opportunity to make a date for the afternoon and evening with a new lady I've been getting to know.
See, I have been getting mixed signals right along from A2. She acts like we're significant others in certain ways, and yet often she'll make remarks encouraging me to continue to "look", "get the experiences you missed", etc. Or, she'll make remarks that make it plain she expects to be "betrayed" by me (again) sooner or later.
On the later (the again), to mix the message some more, she's remarked a great deal about how she over-reacted and should not have become so upset, etc, etc....
Behavior often says one thing, and her words another.
Meantime, I've quietly been continuing to try and date and make connections. No other sex at this point with anyone. Haven't gotten that far along. Just a group thing with a churchy group (nice people, but I could do without the church blather), and as I mentioned, a new, promising connection from POF.
So, I just spend half hour + on the phone with A2 tonight, after I got home.... She was really, really disappointed at not being invited to the concert, especially since it was for charitable organization the which of she likes to support.
Heard it 4 or 5 times at least....
I need to thing this through a bit....
I feel like I gave her too much info and it bit me.... I had hoped that by referring to "going to a concert with friends", (and having things about the house I was trying to get done), that that would address her hint from yesterday to be invited up with a gentle, oblique decline....
But, she harped a bit on how she would have liked to meet my friends, and she went off on other tangents about how she'd have been willing to put herself up in a hotel to come up and support the concert, and nonsense such as that.
She even went in to the "not worthy" to have a lasting relationship with a man bit that she's gone into a few times.....
I really need to thing about how / what to say and react to here.
I feel like expectations have entered the arena -- an expectation to be together every weekend (nearly), for one (and the primary one)....
raises some issues....
I'm not sure how much of it is her wariness of being fully, deeply immersed in a relationship, and how much it's me not quite wanting to go there, yet, with her (or maybe anyone)....
I do think it's too soon to be deep and "permanent" in thoughts....
Anyway, we've seen each other every week / weekend of the month of May, save this one...
So, earlier this week when I saw a concert of interest coming up for tonight, I took the opportunity to make a date for the afternoon and evening with a new lady I've been getting to know.
See, I have been getting mixed signals right along from A2. She acts like we're significant others in certain ways, and yet often she'll make remarks encouraging me to continue to "look", "get the experiences you missed", etc. Or, she'll make remarks that make it plain she expects to be "betrayed" by me (again) sooner or later.
On the later (the again), to mix the message some more, she's remarked a great deal about how she over-reacted and should not have become so upset, etc, etc....
Behavior often says one thing, and her words another.
Meantime, I've quietly been continuing to try and date and make connections. No other sex at this point with anyone. Haven't gotten that far along. Just a group thing with a churchy group (nice people, but I could do without the church blather), and as I mentioned, a new, promising connection from POF.
So, I just spend half hour + on the phone with A2 tonight, after I got home.... She was really, really disappointed at not being invited to the concert, especially since it was for charitable organization the which of she likes to support.
Heard it 4 or 5 times at least....
I need to thing this through a bit....
I feel like I gave her too much info and it bit me.... I had hoped that by referring to "going to a concert with friends", (and having things about the house I was trying to get done), that that would address her hint from yesterday to be invited up with a gentle, oblique decline....
But, she harped a bit on how she would have liked to meet my friends, and she went off on other tangents about how she'd have been willing to put herself up in a hotel to come up and support the concert, and nonsense such as that.
She even went in to the "not worthy" to have a lasting relationship with a man bit that she's gone into a few times.....
I really need to thing about how / what to say and react to here.
I feel like expectations have entered the arena -- an expectation to be together every weekend (nearly), for one (and the primary one)....
raises some issues....
Thursday, May 14, 2009
A2, feelings and such
I've been thinking lately about how "on the surface" things seem with A2 and me... basically not a deep, emotional condition.... Having a hard time fully defining the issue. But came across this article today on POF, which helps me understand my current state of mind with her. A2 definitely puts up walls, and walls off her emotions from herself. It takes a toll on having a deeper relationship, that's for certain.
The Secret Psychology That Makes Him Fall For You
By Rori Raye
What is that special something that makes a man want to know everything about you and makes him want to tell you how he feels over and over? What makes a man want to listen to what you have to say—even crave knowing how you feel or what you’re inner world is like?
A man falls in love with you because he knows he can be himself around you.
He falls in love with you because he feels safe expressing his innermost, private feelings with you. He knows that you can handle your feelings. He can sense that. And because he senses that at the most unconscious level, he starts to long for your company, for your touch, for your affection. He may not even know why he feels this way. All he knows is that there’s something special about you that he doesn’t feel with any other woman in his life. He wants to take you in his arms and keep you forever.
This is what happens to a man when he goes from feeling affection or admiration for you to feeling genuine love.
This is the “secret psychology” I mention in the title of this article.
I say it’s a secret because it’s little-understood by women (and men). It’s rare that either you or he will know exactly why he feels mesmerized by you and wants to get close to you and pursue you for something serious and long-lasting.
Many of us are wrong about why a man falls in love. We think a man needs sex, or has to have a fabulously gorgeous woman with a great body. We think a man falls for us because we’re sweet to him, and kind, and giving. Especially giving.
So we do things for him. We cook lovely meals and offer deep, thoughtful advice on whatever troubles him. We light candles whenever he comes over. We put on our sexiest clothes and buy lacey lingerie. We become exclusive with him without even a passing thought to what we want, or whether or not he has met our needs yet for a secure, loving and committed relationship.
We give our bodies, our souls, our minds to him.
And still he tells us that he’s not sure how he feels. Or he becomes distant and moody. Or he stops calling or asking us out as often as he used to. Or he does something very hurtful, or cheats on us, or tells us that he doesn’t believe you’re “meant” to be together.
This happens because deep down, you didn’t trigger love in his heart. You didn’t connect on the deepest, most intimate level—his feelings.
So, how do you connect with a man’s feelings? I’ll tell you briefly what DOESN’T connect to him.
When you tell a man about what you think about the relationship, or what you did that day, or what you think of the latest news you’ve read or the gossip at work, he listens. He participates in the conversation. But his feelings aren’t triggered.
You chatter on about your life, but leave out the one part that would drop you suddenly into intimacy. EMOTIONS.
You share everything but who you are.
You put up walls with him without even knowing you’re doing it. You decide not to tell him the sorrow you felt that morning about something. You omit telling him how the spring air made you feel alive and free when you went for a walk at lunchtime. Or, maybe you don’t even pay attention to your own emotions. You’re too busy with your to-do lists and tasks and with the chatter of everyone else around you in your life. You worry a lot. You make plans in your head for the next moment, the next day, or the weekend. But if you were to allow yourself to feel what you’re feeling, and then speak from those feelings, you would make him feel safe and connected to you.
It seems like such a simple thing. But for so many of us, it’s such a counter-intuitive thing. It’s difficult. We’re not used to being juicy, sexy, FEELING creatures. So many of us are programmed to be doing, thinking, managing and worrying all the time. These are qualities that make a man feel nothing around you. These are the qualities that make him think of you more like a “friend” than his lover.
When you become a feminine, juicy, sensual feeling creature, you become what I call a “siren” around a man. You magnetize him simply by being what you were always meant to be…an alluring woman who is soft on the outside, but strong and resilient on the outside.
That is the secret to what makes him fall for you.
You can find out more about how to do what works to make a man fall in love with you and avoid doing the things that actually push a man away by signing up for Rori Raye’s free newsletters at HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com. They’re filled with proven Tools she developed to turn her own love life around many years ago, Tools she still uses every day and teaches to her clients so they can keep their relationships strong.
The Secret Psychology That Makes Him Fall For You
By Rori Raye
What is that special something that makes a man want to know everything about you and makes him want to tell you how he feels over and over? What makes a man want to listen to what you have to say—even crave knowing how you feel or what you’re inner world is like?
A man falls in love with you because he knows he can be himself around you.
He falls in love with you because he feels safe expressing his innermost, private feelings with you. He knows that you can handle your feelings. He can sense that. And because he senses that at the most unconscious level, he starts to long for your company, for your touch, for your affection. He may not even know why he feels this way. All he knows is that there’s something special about you that he doesn’t feel with any other woman in his life. He wants to take you in his arms and keep you forever.
This is what happens to a man when he goes from feeling affection or admiration for you to feeling genuine love.
This is the “secret psychology” I mention in the title of this article.
I say it’s a secret because it’s little-understood by women (and men). It’s rare that either you or he will know exactly why he feels mesmerized by you and wants to get close to you and pursue you for something serious and long-lasting.
Many of us are wrong about why a man falls in love. We think a man needs sex, or has to have a fabulously gorgeous woman with a great body. We think a man falls for us because we’re sweet to him, and kind, and giving. Especially giving.
So we do things for him. We cook lovely meals and offer deep, thoughtful advice on whatever troubles him. We light candles whenever he comes over. We put on our sexiest clothes and buy lacey lingerie. We become exclusive with him without even a passing thought to what we want, or whether or not he has met our needs yet for a secure, loving and committed relationship.
We give our bodies, our souls, our minds to him.
And still he tells us that he’s not sure how he feels. Or he becomes distant and moody. Or he stops calling or asking us out as often as he used to. Or he does something very hurtful, or cheats on us, or tells us that he doesn’t believe you’re “meant” to be together.
This happens because deep down, you didn’t trigger love in his heart. You didn’t connect on the deepest, most intimate level—his feelings.
So, how do you connect with a man’s feelings? I’ll tell you briefly what DOESN’T connect to him.
When you tell a man about what you think about the relationship, or what you did that day, or what you think of the latest news you’ve read or the gossip at work, he listens. He participates in the conversation. But his feelings aren’t triggered.
You chatter on about your life, but leave out the one part that would drop you suddenly into intimacy. EMOTIONS.
You share everything but who you are.
You put up walls with him without even knowing you’re doing it. You decide not to tell him the sorrow you felt that morning about something. You omit telling him how the spring air made you feel alive and free when you went for a walk at lunchtime. Or, maybe you don’t even pay attention to your own emotions. You’re too busy with your to-do lists and tasks and with the chatter of everyone else around you in your life. You worry a lot. You make plans in your head for the next moment, the next day, or the weekend. But if you were to allow yourself to feel what you’re feeling, and then speak from those feelings, you would make him feel safe and connected to you.
It seems like such a simple thing. But for so many of us, it’s such a counter-intuitive thing. It’s difficult. We’re not used to being juicy, sexy, FEELING creatures. So many of us are programmed to be doing, thinking, managing and worrying all the time. These are qualities that make a man feel nothing around you. These are the qualities that make him think of you more like a “friend” than his lover.
When you become a feminine, juicy, sensual feeling creature, you become what I call a “siren” around a man. You magnetize him simply by being what you were always meant to be…an alluring woman who is soft on the outside, but strong and resilient on the outside.
That is the secret to what makes him fall for you.
You can find out more about how to do what works to make a man fall in love with you and avoid doing the things that actually push a man away by signing up for Rori Raye’s free newsletters at HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com. They’re filled with proven Tools she developed to turn her own love life around many years ago, Tools she still uses every day and teaches to her clients so they can keep their relationships strong.
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